Everyone's Evil!

Kimarous

Newcomer

6 000g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 2:28:48 AM

Given how Alignment actually works in-game, I consider it a bit of a misnomer. Replace "Good / Evil" with "Peaceful / Aggressive" and maybe even rename "Alignment" as "Disposition" to get rid of D&D-esque connotations to the term.

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 9:07:48 PM

Those thoughts literally go through my head when I'm playing a faction in any game which I haven't read the backstory on

Haree78

Newcomer

Haree78

Newcomer

18 300g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 10:14:32 PM

Well evil is just a commonly accepted definition of our own and I would suggest that if other species were evolved similar to the theory of how humans evolved then I would guess their morals would be very similar to our own.

What is important really is how our own morality would care about other species, many humans hold little regard for other species on earth, whereas some people have the other extreme of having almost the same moral code towards all species. It would be interesting to see what we would consider moral if/when we encounter an extraterrestrial species, I suspect it would largely be based on how intelligent we consider them to be and how physically appealing they are.

I would imagine if they were very ugly to look upon and have very different, to us grotesque ways of life we would very likely not have the same morals in the way we treated them. Not like if they looked like the aliens depicted in Avatar anyway.

What we are saying in this game really is that we as humans treat other species with less of a moral code than we do amongst our own, which I'm more than willing to believe.

Personally I think this game would be better to have different relationship modifiers, such that humans treated very human like races better than very alien races, rather than a hard evil/good/neutral alignment which is very subjective to the observer.

You could also remove the alignment and have species traits such as

Aggressiveness

Assimilation/Enslavement/Extermination likeliness.

Tolerance for aggression towards own kind or other kinds (by own kind I mean humans are less likely to tolerate aggression towards a human like species than towards say a race of cannibalistic bugs).

Hunger for resources/power

Likeliness to trade

Likeliness to enter military pacts

Perhaps all this is going on in the background and alignment is just a short fluff description, I'm new to his game and others may know better.

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 10:50:34 PM

Haree78 wrote:
Personally I think this game would be better to have different relationship modifiers, such that humans treated very human like races better than very alien races, rather than a hard evil/good/neutral alignment which is very subjective to the observer.

That's an interesting shout, depends what you mean by 'human like' races. To me, all races are humanoid

White_Mage

Enthusiast

White_Mage

Enthusiast

13 100g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 12:03:51 AM

If this trend keeps up I'll have to don a felt goatee every time I play, who's with me?

felldian

Behemoth Celestial

Craver? I hardly know her!

felldian

Behemoth Celestial

33 500g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 12:05:57 AM

I like to think of the United Empire as Chaotic Neutral. They do what they want, and they don't really care what happens as a result :P

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 12:34:45 AM

The agony booth made me laugh, what a name!

felldian wrote:
They do what they want, and they don't really care what happens as a result

To me, that just means they're being selfish with little regards for the consequences, which could be pretty evil

felldian

Behemoth Celestial

Craver? I hardly know her!

felldian

Behemoth Celestial

33 500g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 12:45:51 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons)

This is what I was basing it off :P

Platescale

Drakken

Platescale

Drakken

23 000g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 1:27:26 AM

Alignment in the game chiefly seems to affect how much the AI cares about your military strength, and how eager the AI is to build their own. Evil AIs produce fewer domestic improvements and more warships, and they judge you harshly if you don't keep up. Good AIs are the inverse, and even if you have no military at all, they'll take a long time if ever to decide they hate you for it.

All AIs presently turn aggressive if they ever have a warp link with you. Good AIs take longer to freak out about this, but a touching border still means war is inevitable.

Emerio

Newcomer

Emerio

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 9:02:35 PM

Hahaha! Yes! That Mitchell And Webb Look, I love that sketch!

SpinnerMaster

Enthusiast

SpinnerMaster

Enthusiast

23 700g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 3:23:08 AM

Perhaps the next three races will be different (IE good, neutral, ect...)

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

Truth is a chameleon. Herbert

MODVieuxChat

Chameleon

25 400g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 6:35:19 AM

Jashbeast wrote:
I know we only have access to 5 factions right now but I can't believe that only the Sophons have the 'good' diplomatic alignment. I don't know about the rest of you but I don't like being the bad guys, I just can't bring myself to be evil. And I know it's only a game or whatever but I just love being the good guys and winning, makes victory all the more sweeter for me.

What do you guys think?

I usually think like yourself. But cravers are just so much joy to play with (and not as cheated as one may think). Moreover diplomatic play is really awkward at the moment (AI has a lot of room for improvement), so factions that would relly on it are at a disadvantage.

Antulamatsch

Newcomer

Antulamatsch

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 7:37:53 AM

Come to the dark (evil) side, we have cookies!

Inquisitioner

Officer

Inquisitioner

Officer

20 000g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 10:22:06 AM

Hilarious, made my day!

White_Mage wrote:
If this trend keeps up I'll have to don a felt goatee every time I play, who's with me?

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 10:53:51 AM

Antulamatsch wrote:
Come to the dark (evil) side, we have cookies!

They would taste of shame

White_Mage

Enthusiast

White_Mage

Enthusiast

13 100g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 5:59:44 PM

Antulamatsch wrote:
Come to the dark (evil) side, we have cookies!

Chocolate Chip!?

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 10:31:34 PM

White_Mage wrote:
Chocolate Chip!?

Hahaa, stay your hand with your temptations evildoer!!

Kryune

Newcomer

Kryune

Newcomer

17 800g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 7:13:06 PM

It's all a matter of perspective: One man's, or alien's, "good" could be another's "evil", and vice versa.

Xervitus

Newcomer

Xervitus

Newcomer

19 000g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 5:49:20 PM

Just put a piece of tape over the "evil" at race selection

drewitt

Newcomer

drewitt

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 5:49:35 PM

Someone has to be the good guy, I guess...

ArrowLance

Newcomer

ArrowLance

Newcomer

200g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 5:49:35 PM

This will be solved in release I am sure. More factions and customizable factions all day erryday.

lurker

Newcomer

lurker

Newcomer

200g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 5:50:05 PM

Yeah I'm assuming they will balance that up a little with the release races.

Does diplomatic alignment actually make a difference at present beyond flavour? I.e is there a penalty to diplomacy with opposite-aligned races?

StK

Newcomer

StK

Newcomer

300g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 5:52:07 PM

Good guys, evil guys... All of them will do what is necessary to survive (^^,)

There is only war. Ahh no wait.. wrong universe.

Skurkanas

Newcomer

Skurkanas

Newcomer

11 200g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 6:06:15 PM

I think it's a way to distinguish agressiveness, rather than morality.

AI Sophons tend to be the most peace-loving faction by far, followed by Horatio, wheras Cravers and Hissho tend to hate you for your mere existence

maceman

Newcomer

maceman

Newcomer

200g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 6:06:56 PM

They're not Evil. Just misunderstood

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 6:16:51 PM

lurker wrote:
Does diplomatic alignment actually make a difference at present beyond flavour? I.e is there a penalty to diplomacy with opposite-aligned races?

Actually that would be awesome, some sort of bonus/penalty would be a nice touch, but maybe they've already got enough of those with the race traits.

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 5:48:23 PM

I know we only have access to 5 factions right now but I can't believe that only the Sophons have the 'good' diplomatic alignment. I don't know about the rest of you but I don't like being the bad guys, I just can't bring myself to be evil. And I know it's only a game or whatever but I just love being the good guys and winning, makes victory all the more sweeter for me.

What do you guys think?

VIPInFlamesWeTrust

Officer

Do not fight the Harmony. You will be brought into our Harmony.

VIPInFlamesWeTrust

Officer

15 100g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 7:17:40 PM

Evil is a matter of morality.

If you look through their eyes, they're as good as pie!

Cascade

Newcomer

Cascade

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 8:27:03 PM

StK wrote:
Good guys, evil guys... All of them will do what is necessary to survive (^^,)

There is only war. Ahh no wait.. wrong universe.

Make my day... I like Warhammer 40k. Hope to see a mod for ES !!!

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 8:28:34 PM

That would be an awesome mod, Battlefleet Gothic

HorusLupercal

Old

There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

HorusLupercal

Old

26 800g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 8:32:48 PM

StK wrote:
Good guys, evil guys... All of them will do what is necessary to survive (^^,)

There is only war. Ahh no wait.. wrong universe.

The game would be a little screwed up if it was set in that type of universe were every race has a tree up their bum and wants nothing else but to kill each other. Hopefully they do balance all that out cause I like playing as both but would prefer that all races are evil/good in one way or another. Like race A is diplomaticaly good but if you start a war the nuke your planet without a problem while race B would rather start a war with everyone but does their warfare like the british way back in the revolution days

Ebrim

Newcomer

Ebrim

Newcomer

12 000g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 8:43:26 PM

I think in time "alignment" will have a real tangible effect on diplomacy.

Emerio

Newcomer

Emerio

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 8:55:20 PM

Being evil is objective, it's all amoral. It's survival and it's real. You can apply the same logic for the world we're all living in. Sweden are building an arms factory for Saudi arabia, america incited civil wars in the middle east to destabilise the soviet influence there. You only see "the bad guys" when you're sheep staring at the wolves on the other side of the fence. But when you look down on it all we're all just wolves trying to tear each other apart in order to save our own hides.

...That's my thoughts anyway!

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 9:00:05 PM

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