Omni-built vs counter-built.

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Igncom1

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Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

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Igncom1

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11 400g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 4:34:03 AM

Doesent matter if your weapons all had below 10% efficency if you have a &%$£$%^& load of them.

MAOR DAKKA!

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ArrowLance

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ArrowLance

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200g2g pts

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 7:11:43 AM

Radon wrote:
Highest ship tier, highest CP available, within cmd limit of each ship (eg 20/22 for dreads) Whack them with major counters. However annoying thing when versing an enemy with no shields, my dread with all beams has an efficiency of 39%, which is quite frankly ridiculous. They have 0 defence against energy, and my own shields (against beams aswell) has 89%. Surely i should be completely burning them to smitharoons ???

Overdamage I believe is considered missed efficiency. That is if you hit a 200hp ship with a volley (assuming 100% accuracy) of 1000 damage, your efficiency would be 20%. This is largely just hearsay and general ideas however. Luckily I'm usually not concerned with my weapon efficiency as long as I'm killing without dieing.

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Platescale

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Platescale

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23 000g2g pts

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 4:49:43 AM

As near as I can tell, targetting is mostly random. Enemy strikes will be distributed among all your ships, with the possible exception of noncombat ships. To make sure the Decoy doesn't get ignored by the enemy, stick a single missile module on it; even better if your missile tech is strong enough that this contributes meaningfully to the battle.

Compare attack damages to the armor's HP adds. Kinetics do a small amount of damage per shot, but have huge volleys. Beams do a moderate amount of damage with a moderate refire rate. Missiles do a huge amount of damage per hit, but they only fire one missile per module per phase. If you load up a ship with 900 HP worth of armor, it'll suck down kinetics all day and can even absorb several missiles just fine. Even better if you build it in a system with all the shipyard improvements, you can start the ship at level 4 (+20% HP) and with 25% bonus HP, so that's +45% ship durability... which, for an armor dependent strategy, is straight up 45% more damage blocking ability.

Edit: Just make sure you're using the best armor you can. The most advanced armor isn't always the best here. Armors that gives +2% ship HP per module really stand out sometimes.

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FOmar

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FOmar

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13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 11:22:49 PM

Platescale wrote:
I really recommend people make more thorough use of armor modules in their ships. Armor modules increase survivability quite a bit. Decoy ships can be sensible if you give them enough armor. Corvettes can have over a thousand HP before leveling at all with armor modules, and they only get better as they survive battles. Bigger ships can be even more excessive in their HP totals.

I like this idea, but I was wondering if all the HP makes up for no defensive modules..

chef_brian wrote:
with regards to the support ship, do you mean to say one ship's flak/shields helps others?

No, they don't, it just means some modules grant fleet wide bonuses, but take a LOT of space, so it seems to be a good idea to make a corvette with them.

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davea

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davea

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700g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 11:17:35 PM

Do decoys actually work? That is, do they get targeted first? I haven't played enough tacticals to tell what gets targeted. If a pure armor decoy gets targeted first, then you have discovered the traditional World of Warcraft "tank". It holds aggro and takes a beating.

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chef_brian

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chef_brian

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13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 11:16:44 PM

with regards to the support ship, do you mean to say one ship's flak/shields helps others?

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Platescale

Drakken

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Platescale

Drakken

23 000g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 9:54:51 PM

I really recommend people make more thorough use of armor modules in their ships. Armor modules increase survivability quite a bit. Decoy ships can be sensible if you give them enough armor. Corvettes can have over a thousand HP before leveling at all with armor modules, and they only get better as they survive battles. Bigger ships can be even more excessive in their HP totals.

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davea

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davea

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700g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 3:43:56 PM

What specifically do you put in the assistance-ship? Usually I take a corvette frame and put a Lossless Fusion Pod for +1 fleet movement and Intelligent tools for +2% fleet repair. Are there other good techs for that ship?

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jazzmiq

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jazzmiq

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29 400g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 3:28:11 PM

Well i have no particular preference for a type of weapon (although the site of missiles at the end of battle phases is always enjoyable), i generally do a mix of two type of weapons, and i adjust my defense to the power of the enemy.

In order to do that, if i have only one war going on, i like to send a kamikaze scout to spy/reveal my enemy's strategy, then i retrofit my fleets according to it thanks to a good wealth i've been working up along the game.

This helped me counter the bug of the swarm of fleets popping up when the Ai feels like it's loosing.

If this is early in the game it might be easier to just create new ships then retrofitting existing ones if your economy does not allow you that... though it'd be sad to loose some ships with already won XP.

Oh and i always have one "assistance-ship" just full of defense and boosting modules for the fleet.

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davea

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davea

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700g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 3:12:28 PM

Why is it a good idea to make specialized ships of the same hull size in the same fleet? Instead of having 6 missile 6 beam on one, and 12 kinetic on the other, couldn't you just have one type with 3/3/6? The total weapon damage is the same and it seems easier to build homogenous fleets.

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VIPInFlamesWeTrust

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Do not fight the Harmony. You will be brought into our Harmony.

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VIPInFlamesWeTrust

Officer

15 100g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 2:55:09 PM

What I do is make 2 class' one with a lot of missile and beam damage, the other with a lot of kinetic and a small amount of the others. It seems to work very well, especially when I shove in there a support ship with a lot of defence and helpful things!

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MaterialDefender

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MaterialDefender

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13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 2:16:58 PM

Omni-Builds require the Camo/Deflector/Shield bonuses to work effective. But with those they can be almost immune as long as you've got some defenses and the enemies stuff doesn't far outrange yours.

Defense Cards are kinda OP.

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Fritzworth

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Fritzworth

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26 000g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 2:11:52 PM

As I wrote elsewhere in the forum, I actually did an experiment (via save game), sending an 'omni-tank' fleet into an enemy system/fleet, and then sending in a fleet of specialized ships against the same enemy system/fleet. Both fleets won, but the omni-tank fleet came through much better (6 of 7 survived vs. 3 of 7 of the specialized ships). Wasn't exactly scientific, and I'd have to repeat it with some fine tuning, but I've continued the omni-approach.

On the other hand, I plan in a future game to build a missile dreadnought -- sort of a fleet carrier equivalent, surrounded by omni-battleships -- just to see how it does. Love to watch those missiles fly and hit. ..fritz..

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Lyability

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More beer please.

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Lyability

Chameleon

17 800g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 11:30:33 AM

Igncom1 wrote:
Doesent matter if your weapons all had below 10% efficency if you have a &%$£$%^& load of them.

MAOR DAKKA!

^^ this made my morning coffee so much more enjoyable. Thank you for the chuckles! The pirate ships do remind me of them.

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ArrowLance

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ArrowLance

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200g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 7:46:57 PM

I'm curious about how other players prefer to build their ships. I generally omni-tank my ships as well as omni-gank them. I've had great success with this and have won several impossible difficulty games by expansion or domination this way. I usually will refit slightly in favor of my enemies main offensive-defensive type, but still maintain my omni-tank occasionally fitting my weapons completely out of their main resist type.

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davea

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davea

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700g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 3:56:39 AM

Doesn't efficiency include dodge? So if they had high dodge (hero defense) then your efficiency would be low.

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Radon

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Radon

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100g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 2:52:42 AM

Highest ship tier, highest CP available, within cmd limit of each ship (eg 20/22 for dreads) Whack them with major counters. However annoying thing when versing an enemy with no shields, my dread with all beams has an efficiency of 39%, which is quite frankly ridiculous. They have 0 defence against energy, and my own shields (against beams aswell) has 89%. Surely i should be completely burning them to smitharoons ???

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Mechanos

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Mechanos

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6 000g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 2:12:29 AM

cruisers help out alot with support defense i actually maxed out the range for anti missile defense systems and crammed a few on a support cruiser most of the missiles did not harm my fleet.

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Igncom1

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Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

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Igncom1

Craver

11 400g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 2:00:52 AM

I usally just build omni-Destroyers as the cravers till victory, it has long seince been fun, but to not do it is to let that cheater win! no....it might be a slog......but he cant beat me......he cant beat...the swarm!

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Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

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Jashbeast

Stellar Sheredyn

23 800g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 1:47:20 AM

I usually have a few omni-build fleets but then tailor the rest as counters after I've engaged in some fighting. Seems to work okay for now, until I get rushed by someone who decimates my omni's and I haven't built enough counters in time

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Platescale

Drakken

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Platescale

Drakken

23 000g2g pts

13 years ago

May 12, 2012, 1:34:52 AM

For every ship I build, it uses missiles and then one of the other weapon types, depending on what I have best or what the enemy is using least. For defenses, I use a single module of each type and then a whole bunch of armor. I find that as long as you have at least basic defenses against the enemy's weapon type, armor assists survivability more than additional defense modules. As satisfying as it is to go into a battle and get 100% defense efficiency afterwards (no damage taken), counter-building requires constant refitting. Omni-Armor builds are much cheaper to maintain.

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Kinslayer-01

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Kinslayer-01

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100g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 11:42:45 PM

I always do a single weapon type per class with a mix of defences, but I make sure to always have two weapon types per fleet. Also I have found that with a mix of missle/lasers fleets rarely close to kinetic range.

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davea

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davea

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700g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 11:34:11 PM

Can you explain the terminology? Omni-build, omni-tank, omni-gank? I guess you mean a rule of thumb for what percent of ship mass is armor, vs the three defenses, vs the three offenses? What do you find to be the best distribution?

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lurker

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lurker

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13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 8:30:39 PM

Generally try to spread my damage types and shielding unless I come across a problematic AI which is heavily specialised.

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Sebbers

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Sebbers

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100g2g pts

13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 8:28:53 PM

Omni-build if you don't know what you're up against, counter-build if you do; there's no point in filling your ships with stuff that you KNOW will be ineffective/useless.

So essentially after your first battle, counter build

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ArrowLance

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ArrowLance

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13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 8:26:02 PM

nefloyd wrote:
I try to go for a beams/missiles offensive combo with shielding asap. I see lots of enemy ships early/mid game going beam weapons with kinetic defenses.

I really do like kinetics. It always makes me happy when I see my enemy stacking shields so I can make my kinetics extra strong. Watching all the bullets fly is too much fun, hopefully the animation for them will become even more satisfying.

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nefloyd

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nefloyd

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13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 8:21:15 PM

I try to go for a beams/missiles offensive combo with shielding asap. I see lots of enemy ships early/mid game going beam weapons with kinetic defenses.

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Randeng

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Randeng

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13 years ago

May 11, 2012, 7:50:15 PM

I try to balance my ships, don't want to loose them or be too moch weak^^

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