Exploitation Strategies - Endless Space

Exploitation Strategies

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Zutonix

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Zutonix

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13 years ago

Sep 1, 2012, 1:28:23 AM

Ail wrote:

The AI will still most likely build the Food-Exploit but it will rarely ever build food-improvements at all because I use the result of this comparision to determine if it should:

foodconsumption/foodsurplus > population/maxpopulation

Doesnt that prevent them from building towards super-systems later? They do have a tendency to prioritize them and too soon, and make the F->I converter before the planet is full, but it sounds like you are hobbling them.

In one of the recent updates, they have the game prioritize and put new pop on the planet with the best FIDS benefit. So, colonizing a new planet before the last one(s) are full is less of an issue. You will still loose the gains from the colonizer, but the game wont put anymore people there unless it is a best fit. Makes for less micromanagement and fretting over timing. Allows you to grab that Absurdium deposit without totally wrecking the growth rate of the system.

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Ail

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Ail

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13 years ago

Sep 1, 2012, 9:01:26 AM

Zutonix wrote:
Doesnt that prevent them from building towards super-systems later? They do have a tendency to prioritize them and too soon, and make the F->I converter before the planet is full, but it sounds like you are hobbling them.

In one of the recent updates, they have the game prioritize and put new pop on the planet with the best FIDS benefit. So, colonizing a new planet before the last one(s) are full is less of an issue. You will still loose the gains from the colonizer, but the game wont put anymore people there unless it is a best fit. Makes for less micromanagement and fretting over timing. Allows you to grab that Absurdium deposit without totally wrecking the growth rate of the system.

I am not hobbling them! What kind of Improve-the-AI-Modder do you take me for?

It doesn't prevent them from making supersystems because:

...

$(ClassStarSystem:ConsumptionPerFood) ge $(ClassStarSystem:PopOfMax) and $(ClassStarSystem:Population) lt $(ClassStarSystem:MaxSystemPopulation) or $(ClassStarSystem:FoodSurplusToProductionBonus) gt 0

...

When they have the Food=>Ind-Building I allow them to build all Food-Improvements anyways.

Also they cannot make the Food=>Ind-Building too soon because

...

$(ClassStarSystem:Population) ge $(ClassStarSystem:MaxSystemPopulation) and $(ClassStarSystem:HabitatsBuilt) ge 1

...

I made it require Supercities built and Max-Pop.

Also the AI already did that automatic-Pop-Movement before. Was the same as when you used Governors. The Patch changed it so, that even without using Governors it won't hurt you so much as the player. It was not needed for the AIs because they already moved their Pop according to their needs.

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Grubsnik

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Grubsnik

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13 years ago

Sep 1, 2012, 10:39:48 PM

In this particular regard I'd just change the improvement to not remove the food surplus after giving the industry bonus.

This would simplify the AI coding immensely and since you pay 3600 industry for the improvement, it won't be top of the list for developing systems anyhow.

On the Food exploit before HIR, my immediate testing shows that it's about equal for Ocean and Terran worlds, you get a higher pop for doing food first, but it takes a turn longer to finish up both improvements. So if you want the science and dust, I'd suggest doing food first. For jungle and desert worlds I expect that food first will definately be an improvement. For Arid and Tundra, going HIR first is almost certainly best, with extra focus going to actually purchasing HIR once you've pushed some production into it.

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CodexDraco

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CodexDraco

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 9:23:24 PM

With enough industry you can switch all systems exploitations to anything in a single turn, so industry is the best choice generally.

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CodexDraco

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CodexDraco

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 7:47:25 PM

I always switch them to production. If advanced enough I'all terra form them to ocean/jungle and switch to food again and eventually build the 100% food and food to industry improvements.

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Evil4Zerggin

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Evil4Zerggin

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 8:26:21 PM

Specialization doesn't really work in ES--because resources are generated randomly and are uncorrelated, you don't get the massive variation in resource production from system to system that you see in e.g. Civ 4 where you tend to get clumps of Gold, flood plains, etc. Plus there's not that many single-resource percentage-based bonuses. Really the only clear specialization is putting your Corp hero and trade improvements on the most remote, highest-population system you have.

So I'd say the Food-exploitation-until-full strategy is probably close to optimal in almost all cases.

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davea

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davea

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 8:31:09 PM

Suppose you have a mid-game system with three inhabited planets, where at least one of them has less than its full pop cap. You have three exploits to choose. Do you put three food? One food and two industry? Something else? Personally I put one food and two industry, because I prefer the industry to build all the buildings I want. For example, using two industry exploits to build a farm faster gets more pop growth than three food exploits. I've rarely/never been in a position where all the buildings I want there are built, and there is nothing to do but grow pop.

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Igncom1

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Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 8:38:51 PM

You can never go wrong with industry or dust.

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stars2heaven

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stars2heaven

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 8:41:49 PM

Usually I go for whatever it is I feel that I need most at the time. Sometimes I have nearly every system pumping out science, other times I have them all pumping out dust. In one game where I was using an administrator (the modded version of the economic administrator by davea) on a single system with the highest industry, with every other system pumping out dust. I could buy out 10 battleships at a time doing that. I couldn't have produced near that many in a turn had I set the systems to industry and had them each building ships.

In anycase, I agree with the second poster. There really isn't much room for specialization in this game. The food to full is best to begin with, then it is either a question of specializing your entire empire, doing as the OP suggested and try your best to optimize the exploitations as best as possible with the planets, or just try not to be too weak in any one area.

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stars2heaven

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stars2heaven

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 8:46:21 PM

davea wrote:
Suppose you have a mid-game system with three inhabited planets, where at least one of them has less than its full pop cap. You have three exploits to choose. Do you put three food? One food and two industry? Something else? Personally I put one food and two industry, because I prefer the industry to build all the buildings I want. For example, using two industry exploits to build a farm faster gets more pop growth than three food exploits. I've rarely/never been in a position where all the buildings I want there are built, and there is nothing to do but grow pop.

This is always something to consider, but the planet has to play a role in the decision also. What if the planet has very high industry bonuses but low food? I'd prefer three food in that case. I'd get more built in the long run, I think. If the planets are relatively high in food though, but industry is a little weak, what you suggested might be the better approach.

Also, I don't think I would ever find myself in that position. I wouldn't colonize another planet in that system until the first was full or close to it. Depending on it's size, I'd probably already have most of the food buildings built, and if not, I'd certainly have most of them built. At that point I'd need to know whether or not there was a diminishing return on the quantity of food that I had vs population growth. Is there? If there is, going food all the way until full population would definitely be sub optimal at times. In that case, It would certainly be better to go with something other than food exploits and let the food buildings or hero handle that job.

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Ail

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Ail

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 8:55:43 PM

Really? Maybe I've just played too few games but I very often find myself at a situation where I think: "None of the buildings I could currently build are worthwhile right now, let's make a few ships instead."

And it is mostly "having more population" that turns buildings from not beingworthwhile into being worthwhile.

On the other hand, let's say I have a system that lacks maybe 3 pop but has 15 already and a bunch of food-improvements anyways.

Another food-improvement on maybe a lava-planet won't really cut it and maybe reduce the amount of turns for the system to grow out from 16 to 14 or so. While at the same time having the Lava-Planet on Industry would make the difference between building 5 more ships or only 3.

Or if I had financial problems that could easily be solved by putting an Arid to Dust.

There are indeed scnarios imaginable where more food does not make that much sense. Especially if the time to grow won't even change by more food.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 9:12:42 PM

You can never have enough ships.

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Beda

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Beda

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 9:14:02 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
You can never go wrong with industry or dust.

I like indy not only because it makes building every thing else that much faster but you can convert it to dust at any time in the game.

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 9:15:10 PM

True, but I do love my 60% taxes.....My people sure as hell don't however.

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Ail

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Ail

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 7:41:04 PM

While trying to improve the AI via modding we stumbled about an interesting topic:

What exactly is the best strategy when it comes to choosing the planets exploitation?

In my opinion it would be to maximize growth by putting all planets on food and then, when the population-limit has been reached or almost reached, switch it to whatever gived the most IDS for that planet.

Now, while this sounds "not too bad", it might well be that good players have way better elaborated approaches in this regards. Specializing the systems? Some wacky maths? Minmaxing?

Discussing that issue will not only help me to improve the AI but also to improve the general gameplay of everyone who has something to learn here.

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Copperwire1632

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Copperwire1632

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 11:02:45 PM

Ever thought about an approval exploit?

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 11:06:26 PM

I feel like that might be hard to balance seeing as approval can affect more then a single system.

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Beda

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Beda

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 11:10:24 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
True, but I do love my 60% taxes.....My people sure as hell don't however.

Ahh Hahaha Stupid small people should be thankful to even be paid! All glory to the empire!

smiley: biggrin

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Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 11:11:43 PM

Its hard being on top, but it is comporting to look at all the people on the bottom.

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fourteenfour

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fourteenfour

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13 years ago

Aug 24, 2012, 11:31:04 PM

food till full. then it comes down to location in the early game. Back systems go research and make dust when nothing else avails.. nearer to the front they are the more likely they are industry.

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