[Discussion] What am I searching in a 4X game?

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:03:42 PM

Its a smal wonder his still alive

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:56:29 PM

its a reason men loos their hair

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:37:38 PM

Sharidann wrote:
Ah, you see marriage as survival training.... Wise man!

What other way is there... its like living with a tornado...

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:34:18 PM

Ah, you see marriage as survival training.... Wise man!

Alderbranch wrote:
No laughing, its not funny. Youll see Ill survive until my marriage and after too. Youll be present for both events.

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:26:53 PM

znork wrote:
rofl...........

No laughing, its not funny. Youll see Ill survive until my marriage and after too. Youll be present for both events.

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:18:51 PM

rofl...........

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:18:21 PM

Sharidann wrote:
Not doomed.... yet

See theres still hope znorky!!

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:11:54 PM

Not doomed.... yet

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:09:45 PM

Sharidann dosent that sound like a doomed man who just dont know it yet?

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:06:57 PM

Sharidann wrote:
Really ? Oh God... My sympathy...

Yes really... we are getting married this summer at that. Znork is gonna be there.

On the other hand she knew me enough to get an insurancepolicy so im not getting away that easily.

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 2:21:17 PM

znork wrote:
its a reason men loos their hair

Not to mention all the cuts and bruises on close encounters and them taking the house when leaving...

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 1:01:25 PM

Really ? Oh God... My sympathy...

Alderbranch wrote:
You just had to bring that up eh?... Although in my case it was just the engagement ring...

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 12:57:38 PM

znork wrote:
shudder that would be like loosing the marriged ring

You just had to bring that up eh?... Although in my case it was just the engagement ring...

DEVSlowhands

Literary Dev

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do."

DEVSlowhands

Literary Dev

39 800g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 12:26:50 PM

maceman wrote:
...and trying to Kirk alien chicks)...

I had no idea that was a verb, but it makes a lot of sense

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 12:17:29 PM

so in then end there a lot things mor scarry then a 14 year old with a big gun

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 12:14:26 PM

Yeah the wedding ring is the Anti- American Express : Never get home without it!

znork wrote:
shudder that would be like loosing the marriged ring

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 12:12:58 PM

shudder that would be like loosing the marriged ring

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 12:11:33 PM

Oh no Alder, this one is wayyy too dangerous....

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 12:09:40 PM

znork wrote:
and when looking for her son disvoers the father withe an other wommen. and she is now in contoll of the dethstar

For any married man its his wife if one forget the anniversary... ^^

reynanuy

Newcomer

reynanuy

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 11:41:40 AM

I could go on and on about what the perfect 4x game means to me, but I am too tired to even start. However to quickly and bastardly sum it up: I want MOO2 basics + CIV basic research ages and ground combat + GC2 AI and Minor Species + DW/SR scale + ME immersion level(yes, an Action RPG as an example) with a good event/decision/consequence system + LE-I galactic quests + Stars-Supernova! automatic AAR generation + SE4 species customization + HOI3 build queue system + Victoria2 Diplomacy system + SWR agent mechanics. I realize getting all this into a game is nothing short of a miracle, believe me I've tried and still do when I get itching to do some extra coding at home, but the fact remains that is a very complex set of systems to implement.

DEVSpaceTroll

Creative Director

DEVSpaceTroll

Creative Director

45 100g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 10, 2012, 1:38:39 PM

monnikje wrote:
Please, don't numb it down! I love marathon games. My last HoI3 multiplayer game took us more than three months. Maybe add an option for fastplay, but please don't revolve the game around that. I don't want this to turn into a kind of Starcraft...

And about that problem of each turn taking an hour or so... Heroes of Might and Magic 5 had a system where you could all play your turn at the same time.

Don't worry Monnikje, we will not become a Stracraft, Endless space is a simultaneous turn based games in which you can control the length the game.

It is possible to do short 1-2 hours games up to very long marathon games, all depending on your game settings.

The other day in a 1V1 game, on a tiny map, Chronodrax surprised attacked me while I was totally naked, the war was short as I did not do any military research and all my newly built fleets, were obliterated in matters of seconds... that game did not last 30 mns.. so yes short games are possible

but I can guarantee that not only I will never let my guard down with chrono anymore, but a game with other settings can me much much longer.

Jorgen_CAB

Newcomer

Jorgen_CAB

Newcomer

6 000g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 21, 2012, 7:56:32 AM

BigityBalzworth wrote:
things I want to see:

-EPIC SCALE. I like to turn all the knobs up to eleven. Make it truly immense if the player so chooses. And with only 8 races, going with the minor races is a good idea. I like it so big that there are often alien races eliminated before you even meet them. this helps make a pretty dynamic and random galaxy.

- Quality AI and diplomacy. This must be the hardest thing to pull off, as it is so rarely done. I think it is often neglected because you can't take a screenshot of good AI to sell games. But if want to build a reputation as a game developer I think it is one of the most important things you can do with a strategy game. One thing I hate is games that simply jack up the enemy econimic/production etc. systems to increase difficulty by essentialy letting them cheat or to simply make it unfair. if you want to play like that, it could still be an option, though at the much higher difficulties. GalCiv II seemed to acheive this goal. And some sort of dialog is necessary to give empires personality. not just I'll give you this for this. I hope not to see anything resembling the god-awful ai/diplomacy in the Civ games. where every empire(devoid of personality) constant contacts you for the same meaningless open borders treaty. then the empire that you cant even reach declares war on you for no reason for 10 turns, then wants a peace treaty.

-Excellent ship design and research options. I would love to see something along the lines of MOO2. Ship design was fantastic and let the player truely customize ships with unmatched options. I liked how as research went past a weapon in the same category, the earlier weapons would get smaller and have more options like heavy mount, autofire, continuous, point defense, etc. this gave you all sorts of options for customization and meant that the latest greatest cutting edge weapon tech might not always be the one you wanted. there were options with the previous generation of tech since you had obviously become the master of that tech at that point, or simply because you jam them in using less space(bigger isn't always better). And stay away from the inexcusable lack of creativity in the tech lines from the GalCiv series. Lasers I-VI. "Remember lasers 3? well, these are better!"

- I'm not sure how the combat is supposed to work in ES. I would hope for full turn based control of my ships in battle. It seems like we don't get that anymore. here we are in the middle of turn based bliss; the excitement grows as our ships square off against the evil empire moving in on our territory. then we have to sit back and watch a movie of the computer making all the combat decisions for us. I am awaiting a clear picture of ES combat before commenting further.

- a fun and very detailed universe to explore. I would like to see nebulae, pulsars, black holes, etc. all possibly affecting travel, sensors, shields, etc. a living, breathing universe.

- flashy graphics are ok, but far from necessary in a strategy game and can often become a nuisance with massive empires and massive fleets. And a good strategy game shouldn't be limited to high end deathstar-type computers. and keep laptop gamers in mind when designing the controls, please!

thats what i have off the top of my head

I want this... and...

A game that is so epic that no race can ever conquer the whole galaxy and survive its own weight... ever... if I choose that type of large game.

I want to feel the gaming experience and not default to conquer the galaxy or win by scientific victory or some such victory condition that is the stock and trade of every 4x game. Just give me a scoring system that is based on time spent and feats completed to give me an indication on how good I'm progressing.

I want a mechanism that seriously curb large fast growing empires in it's tracks.

BigityBalzworth

Newcomer

BigityBalzworth

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 20, 2012, 12:08:43 AM

things I want to see:

-EPIC SCALE. I like to turn all the knobs up to eleven. Make it truly immense if the player so chooses. And with only 8 races, going with the minor races is a good idea. I like it so big that there are often alien races eliminated before you even meet them. this helps make a pretty dynamic and random galaxy.

- Quality AI and diplomacy. This must be the hardest thing to pull off, as it is so rarely done. I think it is often neglected because you can't take a screenshot of good AI to sell games. But if want to build a reputation as a game developer I think it is one of the most important things you can do with a strategy game. One thing I hate is games that simply jack up the enemy econimic/production etc. systems to increase difficulty by essentialy letting them cheat or to simply make it unfair. if you want to play like that, it could still be an option, though at the much higher difficulties. GalCiv II seemed to acheive this goal. And some sort of dialog is necessary to give empires personality. not just I'll give you this for this. I hope not to see anything resembling the god-awful ai/diplomacy in the Civ games. where every empire(devoid of personality) constant contacts you for the same meaningless open borders treaty. then the empire that you cant even reach declares war on you for no reason for 10 turns, then wants a peace treaty.

-Excellent ship design and research options. I would love to see something along the lines of MOO2. Ship design was fantastic and let the player truely customize ships with unmatched options. I liked how as research went past a weapon in the same category, the earlier weapons would get smaller and have more options like heavy mount, autofire, continuous, point defense, etc. this gave you all sorts of options for customization and meant that the latest greatest cutting edge weapon tech might not always be the one you wanted. there were options with the previous generation of tech since you had obviously become the master of that tech at that point, or simply because you jam them in using less space(bigger isn't always better). And stay away from the inexcusable lack of creativity in the tech lines from the GalCiv series. Lasers I-VI. "Remember lasers 3? well, these are better!"

- I'm not sure how the combat is supposed to work in ES. I would hope for full turn based control of my ships in battle. It seems like we don't get that anymore. here we are in the middle of turn based bliss; the excitement grows as our ships square off against the evil empire moving in on our territory. then we have to sit back and watch a movie of the computer making all the combat decisions for us. I am awaiting a clear picture of ES combat before commenting further.

- a fun and very detailed universe to explore. I would like to see nebulae, pulsars, black holes, etc. all possibly affecting travel, sensors, shields, etc. a living, breathing universe.

- flashy graphics are ok, but far from necessary in a strategy game and can often become a nuisance with massive empires and massive fleets. And a good strategy game shouldn't be limited to high end deathstar-type computers. and keep laptop gamers in mind when designing the controls, please!

thats what i have off the top of my head

Endless_Conquest

Newcomer

Endless_Conquest

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 17, 2012, 12:09:56 AM

I couldn't agree more. I don't want a little contained tactical smalltime 4x. I want to literally have an armada of thousands.

The ability to build upwards of 10 ships per planet. To have an average of 4 planets per system and 100s of system, the ability to have a fleet of thousands waging war all over the galaxy.

Archangel85

Newcomer

Archangel85

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 16, 2012, 9:32:43 PM

I'm looking for the ability to really build an empire that spans the stars. The most fun, for me, was the endgame in MoO2 and MoO3 (yes, I went there), where you had an empire so large that could lose hundreds of battleships in a single fight and still come back for more. What I found lacking in most recent attempts at a 4x Space game is just that, at most you have a few dozen planets in a few systems - that is not an empire. The ability to build an economic juggernaut is what makes these games fun for me, so I'm hoping ES will deliver!

Endless_Conquest

Newcomer

Endless_Conquest

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 16, 2012, 6:18:40 PM

I'm personally looking for something like this

- A 3d map of the galaxy. I want to go up, down, hence and forth to colonize

- Let each race have it's own way to travel faster than light.

- Have - besides a couple of major races that compete with you - some minor ones that probably won't go out colonising other planets: like city-states in ancient Greece.

- Have multiple planets in one system that can be colonized by different races. Maybe you can race X want totally different planets (you a lush green world, X a gas giant) and your empires can be intertwined.

- Have a complex tech tree. I like the idea in SotS that some techs are each game randomly available, but I actually prefer to have a system like in Hearts of Iron 3 (HoI3) where there are só many techs available, that it will be impossible to research them all, and you'll have to choose what your focus will be. For the people who are not familiar with the kind of complexity I'm referring to: in HoI3 you can not only research different kinds of tanks, but for each type you can also research several upgrades for the engines, for the hull, for the gun etc, and also research better doctrines that lead them into battle.

I like OP's ideas, but I'm also looking for this:

-Unlimited unit cap. Your army is only limited by your ability to fund it.

-Planet defense. When a colonised planet of yours comes under attack, the game lets you know and you can actively make strategic decisions in its defence (convert cities to heavily defended garrisons, construct orbital defence systems or purposefully obliterate the planet yourself, rather than let it be captured.Possibly have the ability to rescue survivors from besieged planets. This could factor into your reputation among your empire.

-

and a bunch of iothers i'll probably edit in

Dond161

Founder

Dond161

Founder

23 800g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 15, 2012, 1:00:02 PM

nope..

when on a lan party, multiple games are beeing played... and so there is not much time for one game a whole evening.. unless you plan a lan party with two or three friends... and the bottle ofcourse...

but then again... when life goes by time is getting more precious... but playing with friends stays da bomb.. but one plays in their own time..

Then again I am speaking not for the kids out there but for the fathers with kids who started lan gaming with coax cables...

they all still play a lot so a turn based pbem system would work .. specially if it could be done server side.. then yes we play marathon sessions...

we even now play games which can last two to three years... yes we would like to play marathn games but time is not there and we have to work so our kids can have a computer so they can play a marathon game...

Xervitus

Newcomer

Xervitus

Newcomer

19 000g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 10, 2012, 11:13:01 PM

I'd like to put in that I really really would like a tech stagnation option. For those of you who are not familiar with this it means you can set relative tech costs as an option at the start of the game. For example +250% tech costs, for myself I always choose something along these lines as I often felt like you would research something and half the time you wouldn't even build any of them as you can skip to the next tech without exposing yourself too much etc (Mostly I am referring to the civ series, but either way I like protracted periods with minor advances

)

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 10, 2012, 10:15:33 PM

Can we have some more details and perhaps a screenshot or two here?

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 10, 2012, 1:41:17 PM

What kinde of time span are you guys aming for? how many difrrant setting are going for?

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 11:09:00 AM

and when looking for her son disvoers the father withe an other wommen. and she is now in contoll of the dethstar

Pylon

Newcomer

Pylon

Newcomer

8 400g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 10, 2012, 3:44:56 AM

RaenirSalazar wrote:
Better yet, make it all in real time.

I agree with your ambitious call for a paradigm shift, this...not so much. That said, Star Ruler worked wonderfully in that regard (and was the game you were thinking of, with the Newtonian physics and the deceleration techniques etc.?)

RaenirSalazar

Newcomer

RaenirSalazar

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 10, 2012, 2:05:55 AM

Better yet, make it all in real time.

monnikje

Newcomer

monnikje

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 10:50:30 PM

skamaks wrote:
Looks like a lot of people agree with you on this!

Anyone still interested in marathon games? Anyone?

Please, don't numb it down! I love marathon games. My last HoI3 multiplayer game took us more than three months. Maybe add an option for fastplay, but please don't revolve the game around that. I don't want this to turn into a kind of Starcraft...

And about that problem of each turn taking an hour or so... Heroes of Might and Magic 5 had a system where you could all play your turn at the same time.

RaenirSalazar

Newcomer

RaenirSalazar

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 5:33:25 PM

Isn't 5X "Experience"? But maybe. Realistic starship designs and weapons would be nice, there was a game I played a while back that had newtonian physics in how ships moved, they had to accelerate/deccelerate to enter and leave battle, it was cool if a bit broken.

maceman

Newcomer

maceman

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 4:06:25 PM

oh... so you want a 5X space opera?

RaenirSalazar

Newcomer

RaenirSalazar

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 3:58:30 PM

What I am looking for is NOT a simply more polished more streamlined slightly more improved retread of all previous 4X strategy games but a game that can offer a substantiative paradigm shift that surpasses and exceeds all previous designs. We shouldn't be GalCiv II v2.0 b or Civilization V v3.145g but something that looks at what has been lacking in 4X games and what can be done to change the very rules of the game itself and make a big splash.

maceman

Newcomer

maceman

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 3:51:12 PM

Alderbranch wrote:
Yes really... we are getting married this summer at that. Znork is gonna be there.

On the other hand she knew me enough to get an insurancepolicy so im not getting away that easily.

What with the new lady friend coming on board... I retract my earlier recommendation of CK II. Might get you paranoid.

TrashMan

Newcomer

TrashMan

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 3:27:22 PM

Also, can you name ships? If so, I want a cheat code, so that if you name your ship Chuck Norris, it becomes invulnerable and all weapons are insta-kill.

TrashMan

Newcomer

TrashMan

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 3:25:29 PM

Cow bell. 4X needs more cow bell.

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 10:22:21 AM

The thing with multi is that it needs to fasterpaced or easier to pickup. play by email is awesome ^^ However a simply onlineservice much like an improvised dropbox to keep the save and with a email not when its your turn might make it harder to cheat.

And you are right on the single player experience. Thats where the epic needs too be.

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 2:21:10 PM

Tried soliter?

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 2:15:14 PM

lol! :-)

I tried with LOTRO, not quite a success! ><

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 2:13:10 PM

Well then you have to train her better... ^^

You just have to motivate her.

Pylon

Newcomer

Pylon

Newcomer

8 400g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 1:09:22 PM

I found the camera controls of Homeworld really fluid, and their slight reworking for Homeworld 2 (with a non-anchored strafe at times) was decent as well. Sword of the Stars 2...despite the state of the game, traversing the galactic map is sometimes a nightmare. The best 3D map with multiple elevations I've seen in regards to a 4X space game is probably the indie effort Star Ruler. It was snappy and uncomplicated. Not really counting Sins here, though I suppose I should.

That said...for galactic maps? 2D is the way to go, it seems.

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 12:40:50 PM

I left the 3 as first digit of my age last year.... Still a DINK tho. :-) (but my SO isn't playing...)

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 12:36:59 PM

Pft, you cant be that old. Me and znorky are both 30+... Its kinda odd saying that... we are both DINKs though.

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 12:31:33 PM

Don't like it and often enough don't have the time, particularly if in a relationship or working full-time or having kids .... (yeah, I am old! )

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 12:24:26 PM

That too... most ppl tend to not like marathon civ-games on multiplayer with 5 human players...

xord

Newcomer

xord

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 11:49:21 AM

yea and guys what is important it's that a (mulitplayer) game dont last for houres .... (1 hour and dont count on me)

xord

Newcomer

xord

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 2:27:11 PM

tried mario ?

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 10:08:13 AM

Can't comment on Ubisoft (didn't play their games actually) but agree on the stability and patching issues.

I think a good single player experience gives high replay value.

Multiplayer is a bit trickier as you need to be sure you have a good play-time window so that you don't drop your pals out of the blue in the middle of the game....

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 10:02:49 AM

And multiplayer requires good patching and a stable gameservice. Need I say look at ubisoft and do it all the other way around and it will be a success.

xord

Newcomer

xord

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 9:11:57 AM

the most important thing is that you can play them many many hours without getting bored )its the case for 90% of the games i have) and to do that you need good multiplayer because thats where i go directly when i finished the game

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 9:07:17 AM

Sharidann wrote:

I remember a really warm feeling inside me the first time I managed to beat Moo2 at the highest difficulty level. It had required a bit of luck, of course, but still.

Very good poiint that was special

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 8:33:57 AM

Don't forget a good AI too. All too often, designers solve the problem of difficulty scaling by giving the AI advantages instead of having the AI play it smart. Can lead to frustration sometimes.

I remember a really warm feeling inside me the first time I managed to beat Moo2 at the highest difficulty level. It had required a bit of luck, of course, but still.

I totalyl agree about having sound core game mechanics. As for the 3d Map, it is nice to look at, ok, but frankly, more a gimmick than anything else for me.

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 8:25:15 AM

I would disagree withe a 3d map i dont relay see the point. Other then add a lot of paning and scrolling to make things slower and harder.

For me i like to get the feealig the reserche changes the options i have in ship design. so i would say good ship design is important. Other then that i do belive one of the tings that i loved withe mmo2 was that it was farly simpel gamplay but it was also very hard to do it right.

Newer games have a tendency to do to muche. THe core game macanics have to be fun, and then you can add things on to that. i see to many games that has added lots of stuff to the game that cloauds and not enhaces game play.

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 7:46:36 AM

About tech: It needs to cover all bases (terraforming, economics, politics, warfare, diplomacy and I am probably missing a few).

It needs not necessarily to be too exhaustive, otherwise you end up doing micro-management alot, which takes away quite a bit of the strategy part of the game.

The thingie I personnally like is the possibility to customize ships to reflect either my play-style or my research tree.

Besides that, I need to feel an epic breath blow over my battles.

monnikje

Newcomer

monnikje

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 7:43:16 AM

Bwah, just typed a big reply and when I wanted to post it, it disappeared into nothingness :/.

Anyway, in short because I'll have to get to work in a moment:

- I like the way how SotS handles the 3d-maps. And well, it's in space: I expect no less than 3d.

- Civ5 was a huge disappointment for me: I was more thinking in the line of the independant planets of SotS or the minor races of GalCiv.

- It was an example of two extremes: my point is more that I'd like to see empires intertwine because there are planets in a system preferable by different races.

- I was referring to HoI3's tech tree for the complexity: I wasn't suggesting to release single units. I agree that upgrading your ships is a neat part of the 4X games.

What ae your preferences? Let's make this a topic of ideas.

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 5:12:14 AM

3D maps can be confusing in the beginning... Homeworld controls for the first time... *sigh* So navigation has to be simple enough.

As for the travel this was kinda covered in the "Design overview"

Fleet travel through space by two possible means: warp travel, based on existing warp lines, or hyperspace which allows fleet to hyperjump to anywhere on the map provided it has the required range.

but sure for the second method it doesnt exclude your alternative version suggestion of doing it.

Im not too fond of citystates meself seeing how civ5 handled it (not saying that civ5 was good in any way though in my book).

As for multiple planets in one system with different planets should just be a preference really. They mention in the docs supplied that one cant inhabit a gas-giant at start without the right technology. I mean if they can invent and use spacetravel they can ofcourse utilise and settle on hostile environments.

There has to be balance to the tech-tree... sure there is a way to balance it much like Total Annihalation by just releasing new units and new units until inifinity. Id rather build and design my own ships by piecing together the components. Alpha centauri, Space empires etc. all had this element. Its also easier to balance in the end since one has components to balance rather than entire units. Also if its possible from the start of a game to ban certain tech then its most easily house-ruled out before a dev manages patch away an abuse (no offence dev-guys)

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 5:10:55 AM

Zep and Pylon really added the point to make. Even though multiplayers should be fast and furious most of the time doesnt mean it has to be like that.

Just take Star Craft for instance. Just cause everyone play it at Fastest doesnt mean there arent options for playing it Slow pace. Sure you dont get almost anyone to play with but the option is there.

Zep attacked one big issue of the civ-series. There are not good ways to manage your empire in civ in lategame. This makes me in MP-games become very aggresive just because it will take a shitload of time in order to manage through a turn or two in an hrs time. Think of 4 ppl having the same kind of empire since they started on different continents...

4 turns - 4 hrs...

To work around this id suggest that one was able to set up a buildorder (that one can predefine a couple of) and thats followed through without having to manage it.

Say I have "Pop-increase", "production", "militaristic", "diplo/intelligence" as my four buildorders. Then if I choose pop-increase then I can be sure they build in accordance with that.

To build and micro your first two systems might be interesting... to do it with your 31st is just tedious as you have 30 others to manage aswell..

This will also make it easier on the AI since in order to increase difficulty its easy to copy most used buildorders in order to counter them. ^^

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 11:00:51 AM

The mother of said 14 year old when she realizes he is out there after 8 PM!

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 10:58:26 AM

1 14 year old withe a deathstar thozlow

tkozlow

Survivor

tkozlow

Survivor

14 500g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 10:52:33 AM

znork wrote:
A 14 year old withe a nuke?

2 14 year olds with a nuke ?

VIPznork

Ninja

i were a ninja once

VIPznork

Ninja

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 10:16:30 AM

maceman wrote:

Nothing worse than a 14 yr old with a big gun.

A 14 year old withe a nuke?

maceman

Newcomer

maceman

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 9:04:22 AM

One of my favorite multiplayer games was Rise of Nations... like a good MP Civ which you know will be done in about an hour. Send another nuke!

I agree with many of you. MP should equal fast action (plus lots of trash talking, socializing and trying to Kirk alien chicks) while SP has more depth potential so you can, if you wish, micromanage the early-going critical empire development stages... then delegate it all once it gets too big and complex.

but there's the opportunity. Every empire has imploded at the point it became too big.

I absolutely love the Crusader Kings II model where it's based on human traits and intrigues... with your new wife trying to kill your son so her son can be heir... but she gets stabbed first by your brother who had the same idea... kinda like how the real world runs... with Humans.

in a 4X space game that might be a tad too detailed but I always prefer a SP game with true race traits, espionage and big tech differences (somehow balanced) rather than just MP Red vs Blue games. MP could have complementary or competitive race traits but they're still played by people with their own individual traits.

Nothing worse than a 14 yr old with a big gun.

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 8:14:20 AM

Well I enjoy long-winded games too, but not necessarily in a multiplayer setting.

In fact, I prefer multiplayer sessions to be quite short now, which is the main reason I quit MMORPGing, not enough time to do everything

Smight

Enthusiast

...

Smight

Enthusiast

40 000g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 8:10:10 AM

skamaks wrote:
Looks like a lot of people agree with you on this!

Anyone still interested in marathon games? Anyone?

I do, I still play games like Dominions 3 and Space empires 4 that last for months .

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

VIPSharidann

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 7:56:20 AM

I agree with Alderbranch.

You can have predefined set of orders which makes the micro-management unnecessary... Like Focus on producing food, focus on research, on industry, focus on military build-up, or simply be a cash-cow to help other systems get their feet under them faster.

What is also nice is a building queue, of course.

What I would like in ship design is a possibility for a given class of ships to be automatically upgraded under certain circumstances, like being in a system with a major defense base for example and being in dry docks for 1 or 2 turns, would be a nice touch, particularly if crews gather experience through fights. :-)

Zep'

Newcomer

Zep'

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 7:38:10 AM

I totally agree with Alderbranch. In Rebellion, one can ask the "agent" (the IA) to manage the production of your planets in order to always have an excess of processed material and maintenance (build automatically the good balance of mines and reffineries) + the basic defense management of every planet by building a reasonable number of the best defense unit you have. Meanwhile it is still possible to "customize" your planet (build shipyard / troop facilities, shield generator etc.) instead.

I really like Alderbranch idea, having a set of buildorders to give to planets, and it can help to speed up and avoid the redundant (boring ?) process of doing x times the same thing, moreover because once you got your own building habits, you usually repeat it on every cities / planets / colony / castle / things you have.

Talking about Civ-5, another thing I do not like at all in this game is how the game communicate with you to warn you about something (production finished, units attacked and so on). There is no dedicated interface to easily sort the messages which sum up the main idea of the messages in just one glance, and you spend a lot of time clicking on that infinite list of icons to really know "what the hell is happening in my empire ?"

monnikje

Newcomer

monnikje

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 12:08:29 AM

The past few years I came accross quite a few ideas in different games that I would like to see bundeled into one. These are:

- A 3d map of the galaxy. I want to go up, down, hence and forth to colonize: I was very disappointed by the 2d environment in Galactic Civilizations (GalCiv), while I admire the 3d map in for example Sword of the Stars (SotS).

- Let each race have it's own way to travel faster than light (like in SotS). Or, alternatively, offer different options that all can research, but if you won't focus into one you won't get far.

- Have - besides a couple of major races that compete with you - some minor ones that probably won't go out colonising other planets: like city-states in ancient Greece. A thing I like from GalCiv.

- Have multiple planets in one system that can be colonized by different races. Maybe you can race X want totally different planets (you a lush green world, X a gas giant) and your empires can be intertwined.

- Have a complex tech tree. I like the idea in SotS that some techs are each game randomly available, but I actually prefer to have a system like in Hearts of Iron 3 (HoI3) where there are só many techs available, that it will be impossible to research them all, and you'll have to choose what your focus will be. For the people who are not familiar with the kind of complexity I'm referring to: in HoI3 you can not only research different kinds of tanks, but for each type you can also research several upgrades for the engines, for the hull, for the gun etc, and also research better doctrines that lead them into battle.

Pylon

Newcomer

Pylon

Newcomer

8 400g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 4:26:20 AM

skamaks wrote:
Looks like a lot of people agree with you on this!

Anyone still interested in marathon games? Anyone?

I think there's room for both, and perhaps it'd be more a question of game setup. I love a good marathon game, and if it's play by email, then all the better.

In regards to setup, perhaps there could be game variants...things like accelerated research, unlocked or semi-unlocked tech tree, set or prebuilt fleets, specific victory conditions that don't require massive expansion or the usual prerequisites found in things like GalCiv and whatnot for a "faster" game, as it were. Maybe simply a point victory or a turn-limit?

But don't kill off the marathon games, because that's one reason I love the 4X sub-genre...it's that massive march towards victory. That said, smart automation toggles for everything (or most things) should be considered, as it can allow for players to hand off aspects of the empire management to the AI OR to directly control each function. Either way, I think there're smart ways to dodge the hour-long single turn preparation.

Zep'

Newcomer

Zep'

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 9, 2012, 12:03:20 AM

skamaks wrote:
Anyone still interested in marathon games? Anyone?

I am.

I mean, you can have both choices depending on the settings of your game. In SOSE for instance you can choose small to huge galaxy, slow to quick building time, slow to quick research time and so on.

Imho, you can't have a 4X with deep, complex but interesting mechanics for a multiplayer game that lasts less than..let's say...three hours, at the very least, just because they won't be the time to waste on them.

In the end, a fast paced 4X game (understand : 1hour of gameplay for a "medium" would be just a "regular" strategy game.

Another thing :

The problem with Civilization is that, when the game is well established, it can take 30min for just one turn. Nobody wants to have a game session of 30min / 1hour with just 2 turns in a turn based game. It's frustrating.

There should be a way to reduced the amount of time required to achieve a turn in order to not having the player frustrated and give him the feeling of "well, you did a lot of things during your game session, now you can't stop and continue later".

Something like SWR, Empire at War or....Final Fantasy, with the ATB

: Turns were actually in computed real time and a turn can last let's say...5 minutes. Thanks to this system, players were not forced to wait for the others because the game was synchronous, but not really in real time so they have the time to think about their actions before the "tic" (5 minutes) was reached to resolve the actions (in SWR just the mission, production and travelling duration was affected by the turn based system. If you ordered a unit to go from A to B, you were not able to go undo what you did if he had to travel between planets).

People can argue that, if you have a large empire, it would be difficult to manage it entirely in a fixed amount of time. Well I would answer : that's the drawback of big empires, bureaucracy and administrations have a more important inertia, unless you find (YOU, the player, the Big Boss of this empire) find a way to improve it

Hope this was understable. Writing thins is not the best thing a can do at 1am...

ADMINskamaks

Prime Sidekick

Amplitude FTW!

ADMINskamaks

Prime Sidekick

47 800g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 8, 2012, 9:26:20 PM

xord wrote:
yea and guys what is important it's that a (mulitplayer) game dont last for houres .... (1 hour and dont count on me)

Looks like a lot of people agree with you on this!

Anyone still interested in marathon games? Anyone?

Xervitus

Newcomer

Xervitus

Newcomer

19 000g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 8, 2012, 9:01:52 PM

I really dislike the 3d map, does not really add anything to the gameplay and just complicates the galaxy map. anything a 3d map has can be represented in a 2d map just as easily and much cleaner/user friendly.

Maybe the game could have a 3d mapmode and a "flattened" mapmode to appease both side?

current mapmode from the screenshots looks great!

maceman

Newcomer

maceman

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 8, 2012, 3:32:12 PM

you should try the Gratuitous Space Battles too... it's a top down view simple idea executed well. circa 2009 i believe

Dond161

Founder

Dond161

Founder

23 800g2g pts

13 years ago

Mar 8, 2012, 2:34:14 PM

Hia all,

well my best space game would be not a 3d map.. as I have troube finding my way in Sots

also I dislike in gal civ that a diplomatic victory is easier then the combat one...

what I do like are the 3d space battles....

multiplayer is fun but not the major factor for me . unless the game can be is dumbed down(with options) to a SpaceWardHo game... quick and easy and lots of fun

and lan preferred ... or make it for multiplayer turn based with a server from amplitude running the turns yes indeed a good old PBEM game..

it works and you can ask some extra cash for it... atm I hoping on some total deal package for distant worlds which is now too expensive .. and playing VGAP on www.planets.nu

hmm could also help against piracy etc.... but mainly it provides a platform on which I can play with my friends and all on their own time...

hmm will go and read now which features are in this game as I have only seen the trailer which I found at: http://www.spacesector.com/blog/tag/4x-game/

and allready I am like.. wanna have and wanna play

xord

Newcomer

xord

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 2:29:51 PM

hahahahaha

Alderbranch

Newcomer

Alderbranch

Newcomer

13 years ago

Mar 7, 2012, 2:29:04 PM

LOL starting it up slowly you mean...

I train mine on Wii. That works like a charm.

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