Well that technology would probably have been lost like the endless, and destroying systems would lead to some unwanted gameplay types with people rushing to it to create M.A.D.



But don't fret, because there is a lot of possibility's out there with forgotten endless technology and the power of Dust.

I find it peculiar that the OP dislikes the lanes so much. Hell, my biggest headache is that they aren't used enough late-game (It makes defending an empire utterly impossible). I would also point out that many of these aren't faults that need to be corrected, but rather individual gripes that would be better solved through a mod.

I guess a game mode without lanes where all lane based propulsion techs are replaced by proper warp wouldn't be such a bad thing.



It gives people more options and allows those who aren't a fan of the lanes to play 'their way'. Not a personal preference of mine, but making the game appeal to a wider audience by giving us options (without forcing us to play one way or the other) can only be a positive thing. Seems relatively simple to accomplish as well.

Anybody else thing it would be cool if systems could be upgrades with lane launchers, so all friendly ships leaving will travel faster down all lanes leaving the system? Sort of like a inter stellar highway.

Igncom1 wrote:
Anybody else thing it would be cool if systems could be upgrades with lane launchers, so all friendly ships leaving will travel faster down all lanes leaving the system? Sort of like a inter stellar highway.

Good Idea!

Romeo wrote:
my biggest headache is that they aren't used enough late-game (It makes defending an empire utterly impossible). I would also point out that many of these aren't faults that need to be corrected, but rather individual gripes that would be better solved through a mod.

I agree on both of those statements. I feel there should be more to the lanes late-game then having another empire warp in from multiple locations and wipe you out because you just can't defend that many places at once! No more bottle necks that held them off for most of the game.



And mods are wonderful things. Most games I enjoy also employ a mode or more. Hell... Skyrim to make it enjoyable and have some depth I've installed (thanks to workshop) over 120 mods and all work together to make for a game with much more depth and playability.



The only thing I at the moment have any gripes with, well 2 things, are the same UI problem in the map as everyone seems to say they dislike with the zooming. The big thing is i'm not very fast and if I need to do a quick thinking to get through a battle and place the cards I need before the battle turn is over and on to the next phase... I often get confused and stare at the screen not understanding what's going on. (It is due to my fibromyalgia having damaged my memory and nerves system) If the Devs would be willing to grace us with the option to 'pause' the battle after each phase (default off) it would make the game for those in my situation much more enjoyable. I can usually respond in time without getting confused in about 2 out of the 3 phases. Almost always miss the second phase. (And yes, I know that this isn't up for discussion ATM) If there was some way to mod this into the game... it would be wonderful.

GreyFalcon wrote:
I agree on both of those statements. I feel there should be more to the lanes late-game then having another empire warp in from multiple locations and wipe you out because you just can't defend that many places at once! No more bottle necks that held them off for most of the game.



And mods are wonderful things. Most games I enjoy also employ a mode or more. Hell... Skyrim to make it enjoyable and have some depth I've installed (thanks to workshop) over 120 mods and all work together to make for a game with much more depth and playability.



The only thing I at the moment have any gripes with, well 2 things, are the same UI problem in the map as everyone seems to say they dislike with the zooming. The big thing is i'm not very fast and if I need to do a quick thinking to get through a battle and place the cards I need before the battle turn is over and on to the next phase... I often get confused and stare at the screen not understanding what's going on. (It is due to my fibromyalgia having damaged my memory and nerves system) If the Devs would be willing to grace us with the option to 'pause' the battle after each phase (default off) it would make the game for those in my situation much more enjoyable. I can usually respond in time without getting confused in about 2 out of the 3 phases. Almost always miss the second phase. (And yes, I know that this isn't up for discussion ATM) If there was some way to mod this into the game... it would be wonderful.

Well said! 120 mods seems to be a overkill for me, but nevermind



The pausing-option is a good idea too!

While I was very, very upset with Skyrim (WHY DID THEY TAKE AWAY MY ATTRIBUTES?), I feel you on the mod front. Oblivion/Morrowind, Supreme Commander, Total Annihilation, Red Alert 2/3, Command and Conquer 2/3 and Dawn of War: Soulstorm are all "oldish" games, that I adore much, more more than the sequels, because the mods allowed me to tailer whatever areas I thought needed improvement and skip the stuff that I didn't like the look of. Hell, my Dawn of War now has some ~20 races in it, many of which have about a hundred different unit options. Needless to say, skirmishes are absolutely GLORIOUS.



I can wait to get stupidly in-depth with Endless Space, but sadly, I wont be able to just yet, I lack the intellect for it.

Romeo wrote:
While I was very, very upset with Skyrim (WHY DID THEY TAKE AWAY MY ATTRIBUTES?), I feel you on the mod front. Oblivion/Morrowind, Supreme Commander, Total Annihilation, Red Alert 2/3, Command and Conquer 2/3 and Dawn of War: Soulstorm are all "oldish" games, that I adore much, more more than the sequels, because the mods allowed me to tailer whatever areas I thought needed improvement and skip the stuff that I didn't like the look of. Hell, my Dawn of War now has some ~20 races in it, many of which have about a hundred different unit options. Needless to say, skirmishes are absolutely GLORIOUS.



I can wait to get stupidly in-depth with Endless Space, but sadly, I wont be able to just yet, I lack the intellect for it.

Hehe, great post - Dawn of War is a great game!

Skyrim is nice too



Mods here, modes there - some are more useful, some less.

Igncom1 wrote:
Anybody else thing it would be cool if systems could be upgrades with lane launchers, so all friendly ships leaving will travel faster down all lanes leaving the system? Sort of like a inter stellar highway.

Warp Gate network please. Instantaneous travel between your colonies.

I hope we can turn stars into blackholes, the features of which could bend and slow (or even totally destroy) lanes, could be a nice feature for those useless systems that have like 5 barren planets.

Niweiqi wrote:
1. The most annoying thing to me are the fast travel routes. The very idea alone is an atrocity. It robs players of freedom and limits tactical possibilities.

But if you really want it in the game, at least make it so that systems in direct proximity to each other are enabled to be traveled between. It's quite frustrating to have to take the long way to get to a system that's basically a stone's throw away. Also it makes the gameplay slower than it needs to be.



4. I don't like the galaxy map, it's not lucid. I have problems finding the systems I already colonized and the further away zoom options are nearly pointless. The systems should stay the same, readable size when zooming out. It's really hard to get a good overlook over your stuff. Also the UI should show you a list of planets if you wish, like in MofOrion 2. So you could decide easier which planet to colonize next. Clicking through every system you have discovered just to do that is a bit frustrating.

Just a suggestion - use the advanced option when creating a map - choose as many connecting points to stars as possible and choose one of the galaxy types without arms. Set wormholes/constellation connections to as little as possible. Voila - Moo2 style map. (Please call it Moo2 or MOO2 and not whatever you are doing, MofOrion 2 is not an abbreviation any veteran uses - it made the hairs on my back stand up! I wasn't even sure you were referring to my favourite game.)



You get tons of technology which allows you to travel outside the lanes later on - so a more traditional map without constellations really does make a big difference to your experience.



As for zoom level, I kind of agree. I never use any of the far zoomed out levels, I stay on the maximum zoomed out level which still shows the 'fuller' version of the planet handles: the one with construction/resources marked on it. I'd like to see my borders etc. when zoomed out further tbh.



As for battle system - it's ok once you get used to it. It lacks depth / options - but this will come with the expansion hopefully. It needs more weapon types and defensive options as that will vastly increase the tactical depth. I'd personally like to see better ship designs as most of them are a bit so-so, not my style really. It would also be nice to see your design choices reflected in the 3d engine - at least see some movable weapons etc.

Last but not least we need partial damage. Right now a ship remains at full combat capability until its last breath.



Tech wise, I have no problems with it. It's different but it works quite well. Moo2 gave you multiple techs per research level too, provided you were Psilons or had the equivalent trait.

EvilTactician wrote:
Warp Gate network please. Instantaneous travel between your colonies.

Of course only implemented with cool animations etc...

Well with the right tech and a system with a wormhole, you do have this in spirit.



I am just waiting for the game to allow players to build wormhole empires with fleets that have 1 movement point.

n18991c wrote:
Of course only implemented with cool animations etc...

Graphics maybe, but mostly it should work

While a weaponized black hole would be unfair, I think they are on to something. So far, EVERYTHING is colonizable in the galaxy, there's no "effects" stuff. How cool would it be to discover a black hole? (And promptly lose the scout as well)

Romeo wrote:
While a weaponized black hole would be unfair, I think they are on to something. So far, EVERYTHING is colonizable in the galaxy, there's no "effects" stuff. How cool would it be to discover a black hole? (And promptly lose the scout as well)

... and the rest of the battle fleet. Surprise!

n18991c wrote:
... and the rest of the battle fleet. Surprise!

"this isn't supposed to be happening" lol



Yeah nice idea, Romeo!

Romeo wrote:
How cool would it be to discover a black hole? (And promptly lose the scout as well)

That would be a major turn off for me. Even with current technology, we can observe the gravitational effects of unobservable bodies such as black holes, from far away. Sure, add interesting features, but the pseudo-science and technobabble needs to follow along, otherwise I want my fleet of interstellar flying unicorns with laser eyes.

Marthnn wrote:
I want my fleet of interstellar flying unicorns with laser eyes.

I'd want that too!

Marthnn wrote:
That would be a major turn off for me. Even with current technology, we can observe the gravitational effects of unobservable bodies such as black holes, from far away. Sure, add interesting features, but the pseudo-science and technobabble needs to follow along, otherwise I want my fleet of interstellar flying unicorns with laser eyes.

One: We don't actually observe black holes, we observe the lack of everything there and infer the rest.

Two: A significant amount of stuff in the game is illogical (Why does my empire get more unhappy the larger - and safer - it becomes?) so not being able to predict that they're flying towards a black hole at FTL seems very, very plausible in comparison.

Three: Because gameplay.

Fenrakk101 wrote:
It works. So yes, you do need to elaborate.

no.

no it doesn't.



/#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/11487-been-out-of-the-4x-for-some-time-es-is-a-refreshing-view-but-why-the-combat



Secondly, the tech trees i agree on very much, they are lackluster and just arbitrarily placed, the hulls make sense to a small degree, but there should be clones of those hulls in the military tree, and clones of other tech, for instance those 4 luxury resources (one being virtual goods) that are unlocked at the near end of military? what the hell - personal shielding i think it is? why not just have a copy of that in the science and industry tree as that's more a scientific discovery than a militarisitc one.



thirdly, the lack of planet overview and auto colonization is just a feature that the dev team oversaw, im sure we can expect it in the future, big universe games generally want/need that kind of thing



Fourthly, i actually like the fast travel limitation - that being that after crossing aworhmhole your movement re set to 0, its like hills/mountains from older civs. however those games allow remedy through roads - i feel the same should hold true for ES, in moo you could research ways to prevent that move reduction, my suggestion is a system improvement that (if you're moving through a wormhole to a system with this improvement and subsequently that you own) you retain the moves, keeping the tactical part of it, and infact adding defense tactics.

Meltreness wrote:
Have the same problem, I kinda overlook stickies, and if there are many posts in it, I think that my thoughts on the subject would have been mentioned already by someone else in some way, so I admit I'm too lazy to read the whole thread! Sad but true!

Yep, that's particularly true where the long stickies are concerned. I click on them fully aware that I at some point in the past posted in it but then I notice that the debate etc has moved on by quite a bit so, not wanting to search pages back to see what I posted in the thread, I just forget about it, leave it, and move on! haha True story

Niweiqi wrote:
2. The battle system... I don't think that I need to elaborate.

It works. So yes, you do need to elaborate.

Niweiqi wrote:
3. The tech tree doesn't make sense to me in multiple ways. Why combine technologies that doesn't have anything to do with each other? For example:

If I want to research a new ship chassis I also have to research being able to colonize a different type of planet? Why? Doesn't make any sense to me, neither is it a "fun aspect" that should be necessary in this game. The tech trees should be more logical than that.

It does make sense if you read the descriptions. For example, the technology to safely colonize lava planets contributes to the construction of the hull of the new ship. It's also fun because it balances the combat of the game. If you focus in colonization and I in the military tree, you'll have bigger ships but i'll have better guns. The guy researching the West tree will have more ships, too, so it really divides your research.

Niweiqi wrote:
4. I don't like the galaxy map, it's not lucid. I have problems finding the systems I already colonized and the further away zoom options are nearly pointless. The systems should stay the same, readable size when zooming out. It's really hard to get a good overlook over your stuff. Also the UI should show you a list of planets if you wish, like in MofOrion 2. So you could decide easier which planet to colonize next. Clicking through every system you have discovered just to do that is a bit frustrating.

I don't have issues with the current system of management, but I do agree with the zooming out issues. It reminds me of Spore, but it was much more useful in Spore. I really think you should be able to see the systems a few more planets out, and only on the farthest zoom should it all disappear.





Also, please explain what you mean by "Fast travel routes." Are you referring to wormholes?

1. Quite the opposite, the lanes are an integral part of the game and allow creation of bottlenecks and other such tactics. It would be complete chaos without them. They are also part of the lore.



2. If you are expecting turn based tactical battles it's never happening.



3. Read the descriptions, it makes lots of sense.



4. I agree with the list of planets bit.

1. The tactical possibility's are much greater with a star lane system, creating empires based on the way the galaxy formed, not on where the stars are. Wormholes function just like the ones in MOO and further more you can unlock warp drive for free travel, if your the kind of guy who prefers free traveling fleets then play as the pilgrims who unlock it early.



2. This is a 4X game, not a fleet simulator. Besides the battle cards are a new and fresh idea that should be expanded and developed!



3. Its hard to live in a star ship when the nuclear reactor that powers it kills you all, meaning you need to develop appropriate habitat construction in order to survive aboard larger ships and to live on lava worlds.



4. The UI is up for debate.



Overall if your looking for the next Master of Orion game, you wont find it here.

This game is basically Master of Orion 2 + Civilization. The thing that's annoying me is the Civilization part I guess.

Hello!

1. The most annoying thing to me are the fast travel routes. The very idea alone is an atrocity. It robs players of freedom and limits tactical possibilities.

But if you really want it in the game, at least make it so that systems in direct proximity to each other are enabled to be traveled between. It's quite frustrating to have to take the long way to get to a system that's basically a stone's throw away. Also it makes the gameplay slower than it needs to be.

This is an early game restriction removed by later techs. It actually adds some strategy. For example, a system that is not connected by cosmic string, but is still very close to one of your systems, can be brought under your protection by increasing the influence area of your system. Now you have a beachhead deep in enemy territory, cut his travel off through that area, and once you upgrade engines you can reach it easily. The strings are under-utilized though. There is no sort of blockading you can do relative to strings, no interception of fleets possible - all you can do is prevent ships from leaving a system, which would be exactly the same with no strings in the game. Anyway, the alternative would be to just have systems further away from each other, which would be boring and unnecessary. Yeah it's frustrating, but so is finding a system that would be perfect except for (any number of reasons.) You can always rush to the engine tech that allows free travel, if you hate it that much. I often find that the pathing STILL goes along strings even after I have upgraded engines, since they're just that much faster. Also, you can set in options how "connected" stars are. If you set this as high as possible you might enjoy it more.

2. The battle system... I don't think that I need to elaborate.

I am quite disappointed with it as well. I think the people that say it's fine based on the "type of game" this is supposed to be are incredibly narrow-minded. There are many things that could be improved upon, even within the general design of the battle system. Still, battle system overhaul is a "dead topic" and not up for discussion. Maybe in an expansion or something.

3. The tech tree doesn't make sense to me in multiple ways. Why combine technologies that doesn't have anything to do with each other? For example:

If I want to research a new ship chassis I also have to research being able to colonize a different type of planet? Why? Doesn't make any sense to me, neither is it a "fun aspect" that should be necessary in this game. The tech trees should be more logical than that.

Read the fluff, use your imagination, and take into account balance and design considerations. Just consider the extra techs as unexpected side effects, if you like. The internet was originally for military use, for example.

4. I don't like the galaxy map, it's not lucid. I have problems finding the systems I already colonized and the further away zoom options are nearly pointless. The systems should stay the same, readable size when zooming out. It's really hard to get a good overlook over your stuff. Also the UI should show you a list of planets if you wish, like in MofOrion 2. So you could decide easier which planet to colonize next. Clicking through every system you have discovered just to do that is a bit frustrating.

Yeah there's no reason to have systems disappear from the galaxy map until you get really far out. It's be hard to fit all the system names in at some point, though. UI improvements are quite feasible and desirable.





Also... "A lot". It's two words. You don't write "alittle" so don't write "alot".

Catma wrote:
I am quite disappointed with it as well. I think the people that say it's fine based on the "type of game" this is supposed to be are incredibly narrow-minded. There are many things that could be improved upon, even within the general design of the battle system. Still, battle system overhaul is a "dead topic" and not up for discussion. Maybe in an expansion or something.

This is the focus of the first expansion due next year



/#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/11347-expansion-pack

That sounds a lot to my liking. Although untill then, I'll have to play something else I guess.

I'm also glad to hear that. I hate reading stickies. I guess I should change that.

Catma wrote:
I'm also glad to hear that. I hate reading stickies. I guess I should change that.

The thing about stickies is that they're always there up at the top of the list, and for some reason I therefore stop seeing them... odd that, but must be some sort of blind corner!

n18991c wrote:
The thing about stickies is that they're always there up at the top of the list, and for some reason I therefore stop seeing them... odd that, but must be some sort of blind corner!

Have the same problem, I kinda overlook stickies, and if there are many posts in it, I think that my thoughts on the subject would have been mentioned already by someone else in some way, so I admit I'm too lazy to read the whole thread! Sad but true!

Hello guys,



so it probably won't surprise you that I bought this game, like so many here, because I'm a big MofOrion 2 fan.

I hoped that this game would fulfill the requirements necessary to be at least half as good as the game mentioned above.

Though I must say that for me it turned to be quite slow paced and boring in multiple ways.

It's a nice attempt, but there are many things that need change imo.



1. The most annoying thing to me are the fast travel routes. The very idea alone is an atrocity. It robs players of freedom and limits tactical possibilities.

But if you really want it in the game, at least make it so that systems in direct proximity to each other are enabled to be traveled between. It's quite frustrating to have to take the long way to get to a system that's basically a stone's throw away. Also it makes the gameplay slower than it needs to be.



2. The battle system... I don't think that I need to elaborate.



3. The tech tree doesn't make sense to me in multiple ways. Why combine technologies that doesn't have anything to do with each other? For example:

If I want to research a new ship chassis I also have to research being able to colonize a different type of planet? Why? Doesn't make any sense to me, neither is it a "fun aspect" that should be necessary in this game. The tech trees should be more logical than that.



4. I don't like the galaxy map, it's not lucid. I have problems finding the systems I already colonized and the further away zoom options are nearly pointless. The systems should stay the same, readable size when zooming out. It's really hard to get a good overlook over your stuff. Also the UI should show you a list of planets if you wish, like in MofOrion 2. So you could decide easier which planet to colonize next. Clicking through every system you have discovered just to do that is a bit frustrating.



I only played this game for a couple of hours and I'm already that disappointed. I'll probably just go back to MofOrion 2 and come back in a few months to see if it got better.

There are more things that are upsetting, but they're mostly details. Maybe they'll come back to my mind later.



Greetings

Since nobody else said anything.

Mansen wrote:
Since nobody else said anything.

Okaaay... I agree?

n18991c wrote:
Okaaay... I agree?

http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ie/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

chromodynamics wrote:
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.ie/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html

I can never, ever come across this post without laughing hysterically. (Alternative sentence: I can never come across this post without laughing alot.)

Oh man, I liked that link alot.

ALOTs are cool

Just checked it! Still smiling. Hilarious! lol

Despite the fact that Alots are cute, leave the poor guy alone. It's just a typo.

Steph'nie wrote:
Despite the fact that Alots are cute, leave the poor guy alone. It's just a typo.

Alot of alots in here



But yeah, typos happen! (even I do typos D: - but I edit them fast enough )

Damn straight, we all make mistakes... and if those mistakes are funny then so much the better! It's all in good faith, no harm done!