Hi to all!



First: English isn't my native language but, I will try my best!



I saw a few threads about Ground combat and some ideas to how improve it but, some ideas are really awesome others are “meh” but with some components that make these ideas feasible, atleast this is a Indie company, not a big fish.



I saw that the community want things that feels opposites, some wants something fast, others something like a RTS game, others cinematic, others more deep... And all of them make some interesting ideas Why don't merge all? I mean, merge all ideas into 1 idea from all parts of the community but keeping all purposes of these ideas, for example, make something with cinematic, deep, and some interaction but keeping the “fast” part. My idea:



Make ground combat like Space battles. A hostile fleet come to a planet, it have their “first contact” with the defenses. So the battle begins when the fleet try to conquest/attack the system:



The battle have 3 phases, just like space battles

All phases have their battle card, again, just like space battles. But in the defender side, they have some cards only for ground units like the Fleet have only... ”fleet cards”

All phases have the same bonus.

The battle can have an auto resolve option.

This battle is only a battle, Have nothing to do with the turns that a fleet need to conquest the system.





But, we need turrets or something to defend our planet! So we need to make them



I think it can be like space fleets (for more balance) each system have X CP (some buildings and research can improve this) these turrets have the same weapons that space ship, Kinetic, beams and missile and can have specific def buildings/turrets that provide Shields/anti missile, to emulate the defense system of the ships. Maybe they can be auto upgradeable and of course they will have upkeep cost.



Now, with this add, the game is open to more variety and posibilities for example:



-Heros that improve your def in the system can have some battle cards only for def.



-If in the future this game will have some kind of spionage you will want to know what defenses have your enemy.



-More deep to the game, strategy and the defender can have a possibility to defend his planet or, atleast, dmg enough the enemy fleet to crush them in the next few turn with his fleet.



-There are more pros to this, but, for now, I don't remember more.



How it works?



Like I said before, when a fleet reach the enemy planet will have their first contact vs defenses, so you can play the battle or auto resolve.



When you play, the cinematic will be like the cinematic of space battle but with a planet (that will shoot some lasers and missiles and maybe you can see the turrets or something) instead a fleet vs the attacker fleet.

if defender wins: good job! Your system is saved If attackers wins: the game remain the same as now, the fleet will need some turns to conquest the system why? Because they still need to deploy the troops, kill the remaining defenses and, well, conquest the system.



Other idea, this is stolen from Total War: When you capture the system you can have some option. Capture normally (only a few buildings are destroyed with a normal approval and normal fids) Capture with caution (more turns to capture but no buildings will destroyed, more approval and better fids) and fast (few turns to capture, some or all building destroyed, near to 0 approval and bad Fids)



I think, with something like this, the gameplay will improve a lot of and the game will feel more deep and with more life and interaction.



Now.. Discuss!

First post as well.



The original Imperium (which is now Imperium: 3rd Millenium) had some great ideas for simplified ground combat as well. It has been many years, but I remember heavy units, which required dedicated transport (large space requirements) and light drop infantry (small space requirements). This would allow a simple mix of invasion forces - heavy for taking on heavily defended planets, and light for colonies. This would work well with a cards system as well - heavy units take time to build, and also up your local defense when groundside (in hangar?) while light units are faster to build, but have minimal defensive bonuses.



I am not a fan of any old warship being capable of invading a planet. Obviously ship to ground technology, which is incorporated, speeds up an invasion, but as it stands, a fleet of glass cannon high tech missile boats is almost as capable of invading a system as dedicated military transports with lower tech. In speculative reality, the missile boats can certainly destroy, but actually occupying a system requires troops of some kind. I don't mind some very limited capabilities for any armed warship to invade, but I would like to see dedicated transports as a requirement for taking even moderately defended systems (much lower invasion bonus for general weapons?).



I also like the idea of the capture/focus of attack - I imagine the Pilgrims and the Cravers have very different ideas about invasions - invade with finesse to minimize damage, or simply crush everything to seize the planet, regardless of infrastructure damage.

I have always felt that invasion modules sould be a multiplier to the troops each sip can carry, thus making invasion ships critical to at attack due to the needed support systems like air support and war machines.

Right now the invasion system feels a lot more like a loading bar. It would be interesting if it was more like a health bar, where undefended colonies are quickly wittled down by large fleets, but defended colonies actually have a battle strength that could be destroyed, as well as health that could be affected. This would mean new card types for both invading fleets and defending colonies, with the defenders getting more the more defenses they build, and invaders getting more the more invasion related modules they have onboard.

Well they kinda do at the moment, with SystemInvasionDefense and SystemInvasionRegeneration.



Ever found that a recently taken system was really easy to take back, even with the larger population and extra defenses?

I'm thinking they mean in terms of gameplay ,like something to change combat up a little.

I don't think those would make any sense in ES universe, and here is why:



You can only prevent fleets from leaving the system you are guarding, so if you invade a system, nothing prevents the owner from sending fleets there to defend it. The invasion takes time, your fleet power vs their defenses, so is not an instant fight like in galciv to get to the ground phase etc. Nobody would build turrets and other stuff when they can simply keep a fleet around to intercept the invader (fleets are mobile, planetary defenses are not).



Also the system defense is tied to the number of planets and population which is enforced by the specific defensive buildings. While invading fleets can be easily customized (more tonnage, more CP, better modules, heroes) and we get to the point where you will always succeed in invading and beating the defender due to sheer MP power. Say you have a system with 1 planet in it, but it has a wonder, so is a very important system. With current game mechanics, you can defend it easily with your fleets, but if you would use your idea of invasion, then nothing would stop the attacker from taking it no matter how many defenses you would build there since it's only 1 planet and it can't compare to a 4-5 planet system in defense power.

Why not give the option to destroy a colony's population using MP, or occupy the system and take it over using Invasion power. Would give usefulness to Invasion Mods, and still make sense, lore-wise.

I believe a better accent should be made on invasion mods. Maybe even to the point that you can't invade a system without having at least 1 such mod on your fleet. Makes no sense that a simple scout can invade a system imho (of course the number of turns is very high, but still possible lol). Is like hey! loot at me! am ridding in this shuttle and am gonna invade your system of 5 planets with zillions of population and what not ^_^



I think fleets without invading mods should only be able to blockade a system but not invade it. It will make the game more balanced when you can't spam fleets of 12 destroyers to take over systems. And also will move the whole invading part to end of start of the game more into the middle of the game. Or make it so that systems with at least 1 defensive building built can't be invaded without having invasion mods on fleet. So you can still invade early game with defenders / destroyers, take on enemy outposts etc.



Any opinions on this?

As noted in my reply to Anelyn's proposal I would prefer for destroyers and frigs to confer no invasion power at all and be unable to fit invasion modules. Cruisers and above should only contribute to a siege to avoid rewarding dessie spam.

I really like that they do contribute.



As I have said before, have the invasion modules a multipliers to the invasion base provided by the fleet.



300 fleet invasion * (2 per invasion module * 5 invasion modules in fleet) = 3000 invasion strength.

treizoz wrote:
As noted in my reply to Anelyn's proposal I would prefer for destroyers and frigs to confer no invasion power at all and be unable to fit invasion modules. Cruisers and above should only contribute to a siege to avoid rewarding dessie spam.

That would be nice indeed. But I still believe that defensive buildings should be the ones adding the need of invading modules in order to invade said system, but early game systems can be invaded normally by corvettes and destroyers as it is now. This will make peeps change their tech path and approach depending on their neighbours etc, if you have cravers or birdies as neighbours you may want to beeline for first system defense tech in order to stay safe

Anelyn wrote:
That would be nice indeed. But I still believe that defensive buildings should be the ones adding the need of invading modules in order to invade said system, but early game systems can be invaded normally by corvettes and destroyers as it is now. This will make peeps change their tech path and approach depending on their neighbours etc, if you have cravers or birdies as neighbours you may want to beeline for first system defense tech in order to stay safe

Good point, early game rushing or invasions would be halted by removing dessie invasion MP and that is not my goal. We might need to think up a way to keep early gameplay as it is while reducing the effectiveness of small ship spam later on.