Designing Feasible "Minor" Races, Mechanics and Developmental Resources - Endless Space

Designing Feasible "Minor" Races, Mechanics and Developmental Resources

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CyberianK

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CyberianK

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12 years ago

Mar 12, 2013, 9:43:04 AM

I like the Civ5 city states. They add alot of options like stealing from them, trading ressources/bonus and general diplomacy. Also they can become quite deadly when fighting for a human who donates them alot of units. And the fact that sometimes you will begin a fight just over "possession" of a city state with another AI/player because he tries to bribe them and you don't want it.

Sometimes it makes an AI game much more fun to fight with Hanoi against Russia or to protect the neutrality of Zurich against invading Mongols. It is just the feel of fighting alongside a friend who isn't really competing with you.

I don't think that ES minor races should be too active/dynamic. That's for the AI to be. You can't expect a city state feature having better AI/more dynamics than the regular AI. The focus for those minor races should be in additional diplomacy/trade possibilities and more interesting strategic galaxy map arrangements.

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Fresh_Undies

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Fresh_Undies

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12 years ago

Oct 6, 2012, 5:09:34 AM

Igncom1 wrote:
Word home dog!

Yes I am a house hermit

smiley: stickouttongue

not my first choice in life but my current arrangement involves taking care of two obnoxious and utterly annoying elderly folks over here in Aus so it's heavy computer use + take away kebabs for me

smiley: approval

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Codename_Veers

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Codename_Veers

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12 years ago

Oct 6, 2012, 9:33:39 PM

Geeks 4 Life, man! lol

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n18991c

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n18991c

Old

12 years ago

Oct 9, 2012, 7:54:46 PM

Fresh_Undies wrote:
Yes I am a house hermit not my first choice in life but my current arrangement involves taking care of two obnoxious and utterly annoying elderly folks over here in Aus so it's heavy computer use + take away kebabs for me

Plenty of time for learning how to deal with the harsh and unforgiving realities of ES then, eh?

smiley: stickouttongue

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MvBuchwald

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"I demolish the bridges behind me, so I have no choice but to move forward."

MvBuchwald

Pro

12 years ago

Feb 23, 2013, 9:58:58 PM

I agree completely with OP, and I personally want to see the Plocynus faction (of which the minor faction hero Burra Techseeker belongs) which is my favorite minor faction hero so far

it is a faction already in the game, with some lore already to it with the addition of there already being Artwork of the race, this could be an easy implement.

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Lord_Proteus

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Lord_Proteus

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12 years ago

Feb 26, 2013, 10:32:35 PM

I support the idea of minor races as a way to diversify both the game play and the lore and history of the series. As a big fan of x4 and Galactic Civilizations I and II, I know first hand that minor races can make things interesting.

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darkimpaler

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darkimpaler

Forgotten

12 years ago

Mar 2, 2013, 9:45:08 AM

Like Lord_Proteus said, this idea seems to come out right from the GalCiv saga and... I totally support it! I think is great to have many different, maybe even randomized, minor races across the Galaxy! They could be of use in many ways to me:

- (obviously) to conquer them

- to trade with them (maybe, like Civ5 expansions, they can give you unique resources)

- to ally with them for military reasons (as buffer states)

- maybe, they can also provide you unique techs, nothing groundbreaking of course

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Dementophobic

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Dementophobic

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12 years ago

Mar 2, 2013, 7:30:29 PM

I feel having different, better AI personalities would be better than this.

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mhstierney

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mhstierney

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12 years ago

Mar 6, 2013, 6:40:10 PM

After taking a break from Endless Space and doing some hardcore Civ V marathons, I've come to the conclusion that the City State system they've established is what Amplitude just needs base their version off of. New art isn't even necessarily needed, since the mechanics (missions, competition, donations, perks) alone make the game so much more interesting and fun.

HELLENIC LEAGUE TIME.

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Genouious

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Genouious

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12 years ago

Mar 6, 2013, 8:52:34 PM

NPC races would help to add diversity and life to the galaxy as a whole. It would help to put more emphasis on military power early game as well, why bother colonizing an undeveloped system when there is a lovely world of "pacifists" who could use a new glorious ruler.

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Sophon_The_Younger

Old Sheredyn

Sophon_The_Younger

Old Sheredyn

12 years ago

Mar 11, 2013, 6:22:14 PM

Talsar wrote:
As i read the first post i immediately thought of these "city-states" from civ. Having something like that could give some extra "spice".

But Igncom1 is also right. If you do a "half-assed" implementation of this without any connection to the universe and too much static ( i mean just because they are some "minor races" they don't have to be like the "city-states" always just doing exactly the same, staying at the same spot... probably a bit difficult to explain but i hope you get me. They have to be somehow dynamic).

So this is not only a technical thing it should be done very carefully from the narrative/story/creative side.

I think the city-state idea works. Maybe create a set limit of planets to colonize outside of there system. 3? Just to make it interesting and not stagnate cultures that take up space. Civ 5's civilizations are quite boring as they sit and do nothing. They do not even become a cold war force defending their space from everyone else, true neutrals.

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Igncom1

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Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

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12 years ago

Oct 5, 2012, 6:29:56 PM

Fresh_Undies wrote:

Yes I am a Sci Fan and geek

Word home dog!

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The_Quasar

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"Imagination is more important than knowledge." Albert Einstein

The_Quasar

Senior

12 years ago

Mar 12, 2013, 4:45:21 PM

I liked the addition of the City States in Civ V, and think that something similar in ES would tend to improve the feel of the game, and make things more interesting... So I would vote for something similar in ES...

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Sophon_The_Younger

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Sophon_The_Younger

Old Sheredyn

12 years ago

Mar 12, 2013, 4:54:52 PM

I agree. I do enjoy being able to work with factions, usually minor ones, that are not actually competing with you to win the game.

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Jack_Forest

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Jack_Forest

Officer

12 years ago

Mar 14, 2013, 1:03:30 AM

Minor races are good because a) they give more life and diversity to the universe and b) they provide you with an opportunity to fight someone without any chance of total defeat.

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n18991c

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n18991c

Old

12 years ago

Mar 16, 2013, 11:43:39 AM

Jack_Forest wrote:
Minor races are good because a) they give more life and diversity to the universe and b) they provide you with an opportunity to fight someone without any chance of total defeat.

Yep, who doesn't like crushing chanceless weaklings under one's boots... lol

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Jack_Forest

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Jack_Forest

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12 years ago

Mar 18, 2013, 7:02:17 AM

n18991c wrote:
Yep, who doesn't like crushing chanceless weaklings under one's boots... lol

Well, remember Snathi from GalCiv 2? Their purpose was to give you someone to crush without any real consequence

smiley: biggrin

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HumanSpacer

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HumanSpacer

Empire

12 years ago

Mar 18, 2013, 4:00:00 PM

This idea is good, I like it. But as some people already mentioned here, such minor factions should have a purpose. Personally, I don't like too much of the idea of creating sub-factions of the already existing factions and then call them minor factions. I would prefer more unique races for each of those factions. But this are just my opinions, though. These minor factions could act as pathetic enemies or minor traders, anything. I will simply love to have minor factions in Endless Space, as long as I have something to do with them (crushing them, maybe? :twist

.

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nToxic

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nToxic

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12 years ago

Apr 3, 2013, 12:02:58 PM

I like the idea of minor factions for the following reasons (especially the way they are implemented in "Star Trek Birth of the Federation"):

They provide the possibility to get colonized and some how developed systems, just in case they join your faction (-> payment of FIDS).
They block systems: That could influence the outcome of a war against some major factions, if you have not enough influence to annex them.
They only spread in their own star system and they have more or less powerfull starships to terrorize major and minor factions around the galaxy, without invading systems.
They have prejudices towards some major factions. That makes diplomacy sometimes difficult.
If you dont like them, invade them, and live with the consequences, that the survivors will hate you a long time ^^.

I think these points could make the galaxy more dynamic.

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VIPNasarog

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VIPNasarog

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12 years ago

Apr 3, 2013, 12:20:26 PM

The_Quasar wrote:
I liked the addition of the City States in Civ V, and think that something similar in ES would tend to improve the feel of the game, and make things more interesting... So I would vote for something similar in ES...

Stardock had various iterations this in GalCiv 2 and E:WoM.

They would have to offer something interesting in such a way that you'd want to keep them around and not take them over. Speaking of taking over, there has to be a better mechanic for that because you take over a system and take control of it. What happens to it's denizens? Do you quietly exterminate them, or assimilate them into your society?

I'd think that it might try to rebel and spinoff it's own empire or something like that.

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Romeo

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Romeo

Literary Transformer

12 years ago

Apr 4, 2013, 6:35:55 AM

Just tossing my own idea out there, but it'd be really cool to discover a race still really early in its development (Pre-spaceflight) with a nice system. The player could either crush them and take the system, leave them alone, or even help them develop. If developed, at a random point in the game, they'll become an Ally who totally worships your own group, making them useful but risky.

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VIPNasarog

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VIPNasarog

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12 years ago

Apr 4, 2013, 5:29:10 PM

Romeo wrote:
Just tossing my own idea out there, but it'd be really cool to discover a race still really early in its development (Pre-spaceflight) with a nice system. The player could either crush them and take the system, leave them alone, or even help them develop. If developed, at a random point in the game, they'll become an Ally who totally worships your own group, making them useful but risky.

That's straight up uplifting. I like it.

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Troodon

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Troodon

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12 years ago

Sep 19, 2012, 5:34:40 AM

Igncom1 wrote:

No need to add some half-assed new species for every minor faction, lots of 4X games do it and its pointless, they have no reason for being and no connection to anything.

oO oO oO O.O

But........ more funny looking aliens to conquer = good aliens.......

(basically, my foreign policy in Endless space is to play as UE, make one token ally, and go to war with everyone else.)

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mhstierney

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mhstierney

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12 years ago

Sep 3, 2012, 5:39:32 PM

In reply to myself, here are some concepts I was brainstorming. Could possibly be more resource friendly, but, alas, scumbag brain.

And one point I left out before: The inclusion of sub-races should make the game more re-playable! An integral part of what makes Endless Space "Endless".

At any rate, my ideas:

3 minor races, each bound to one starting system, pre-designed to give them the resources they need to operate at optimal efficiency and therefor not simply flounder and die. Tech tree also has some technologies unlocked to begin with: you can't storm said system and make off with a ship building utopia to boot.

Anyway, I say 3 races because this allows for "good", "evil" and "neutral", which rings of good balance in terms of the big picture and is much easier to pull off than designing 16 of them. The mechanics I'm about to suggest are more my personal fancy than anything else, but you might enjoy them as well:

Evil: "The Mercenaries"

- System geared towards ship production. Not outwardly aggressive, and not always producing ships.

- Alien races open a diplomatic dialog with them, select another race they want to have attacked, and then propose an amount of dust for said war to be declared. If the mercenaries find it acceptable, it's off to war they go!

- Of course, if they attack you, you can bribe them to stop. Then the original financier can bribe them to continue. Then it becomes a bidding war.

- To save on resources, re-skinned pirates. Add a new insignia a viola. (Cheaper than new concepts and models).

- If system razing is eventually implemented, perhaps you can bribe them to attempt such?

- Only 2 ship designs: "Raider", an attack vehicle, and "Destructor", a system destruction utility vehicle.

- So, we have proxy wars, increased utility for dust, and a dangerous new concern. Sounds pretty cool to me. This is one of my favorite ideas.

Neutral: "Merchants and Spies"

- Eager to become your friend, but beware...

- Doing business with the Merchants is a double edged sword. Although you'll see your trade routes blossom if you co-operate with them, you'll start to notice "drone ships" located in your systems. These are draining science and dust production (As in, the way an adventurer hero does).

- One needs to carefully evaluate if their trade routes and the bonuses therein are outproducing the amount stolen by spies.

- Two ships needed: Guardian and Drone Ship. Drone already explained. Guardian naturally defends the home system. The Merchants will not interfere when two races declare war, even if they are allies with one.

Good: "Peaceful"

- As in, Ghandi peaceful, not US peaceful, as someone else on the forums put it once...

- Reward peaceful play with buffs.

- Refuse to associate with those civilizations who've recently declared war.

- If possible, will lend post defenders to try and save the systems of friends being attacked. Will never help offensively.

- Two ships: "System Buffer" to apply said benefit and a "Defender", to protect the home system and help friends.

These ideas need to be expounded upon. In an ideal world these races would be well equipped to survive into the late game in order to make that more interesting, as people have often been complaining that later on things get a tad boring (which I have to agree, towards the "end" my civilizations spam science, gets boring).

More/better ideas needed!

One can dream.

*In retrospect my ideas should be simplified a tad. The great thing about Endless Space is that it's so intuitive... Minor races shouldn't disrupt that and mine look a wee bit complex.

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Igncom1

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Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

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12 years ago

Sep 3, 2012, 6:23:28 PM

Why not just non-expansive versions of the empires already in game?

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mhstierney

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mhstierney

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12 years ago

Sep 3, 2012, 8:01:32 PM

A possibility.

A boring, dry, defeats the purpose of attempting to expand the universe and enhance variety of game play possibility.

The objective is to make things more interesting, add replay-ability, etc. A re-skinned Sower confined to a single system isn't intriguing or adding strategic possibilities.

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VIPNasarog

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VIPNasarog

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12 years ago

Sep 3, 2012, 8:04:50 PM

I'm in. Great idea. I love having lots of various races in the system.

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Igncom1

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Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

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12 years ago

Sep 3, 2012, 9:17:55 PM

mhstierney wrote:
A possibility.

A boring, dry, defeats the purpose of attempting to expand the universe and enhance variety of game play possibility.

The objective is to make things more interesting, add replay-ability, etc. A re-skinned Sower confined to a single system isn't intriguing or adding strategic possibilities.

Re-skinned, re-lored and possibly over several systems, a deviant group of sowers who are working towards a more peaceful solution to their problems.

There Lore possibility's with the faction themselves for multiple factions, like UE barons or different Craver swarms.

No need to add some half-assed new species for every minor faction, lots of 4X games do it and its pointless, they have no reason for being and no connection to anything.

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mhstierney

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mhstierney

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12 years ago

Sep 3, 2012, 9:37:31 PM

I believe we're talking about two totally different things. I believe you'd like to make sub-factions or new ones (and a new thread for that topic, as it deserves discussion) or something very nearly of the sort.

If it's swarming about the place, owns several systems, etc, it isn't so much a minor race as the predecessors of Endless Space would have us understand. Think Gal Civ 2.

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Nycidian

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Nycidian

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12 years ago

Sep 13, 2012, 2:20:55 PM

I like this idea, it is a good way to make the galaxy less stagnant.

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Codename_Veers

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Codename_Veers

Sentient Tweaker

12 years ago

Sep 13, 2012, 3:02:49 PM

I would support this idea. But minor races would recommend some new programming, since they don't act the same way, the big factions are programmed to. Otherwise you could just design your own faction and let it play as AI (not possible right now I think). But with some additional prorgamming there could be minor factions (looking to the modders).

But such minor races should have a purpose or a deep impact on the game, since just having them as some battle booster, just there to further stop conquering the galaxy would be just boring. As you mentioned above, there should be some purpose.

Your Ideas are good, but I would love to see more minor races then just three!

But first one thing that could be improved right from the game: the "natives" anomalies, good or bad are a nice addition but with little impact on the game. Those Aliens are received as Numbers and Letters by the player and thus not very interesting. To have some more information of random little storys (and pictures) would be awesome and improve the fun with the fluff.

Additional ideas on the "minor races" would be:

Asking you for help as their "big brother" to trade and fight for them, helping with population and colonizing planets. They could ask for goods with pop ups and helping them would improve your Diplomatic stats (another way to boost diplomacy and an alternative to win the game faster with it!). There should be absolutely good reasons not just to invade and exterminate them, since they help much in late and mid game.

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Igncom1

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Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

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12 years ago

Sep 13, 2012, 4:52:23 PM

mhstierney wrote:
I believe we're talking about two totally different things. I believe you'd like to make sub-factions or new ones (and a new thread for that topic, as it deserves discussion) or something very nearly of the sort.

If it's swarming about the place, owns several systems, etc, it isn't so much a minor race as the predecessors of Endless Space would have us understand. Think Gal Civ 2.

Yes because a space fairing race that hasten expanded or attempts to expand makes sense.

What I am taking about is non-expansive small empires of the already established species, not one system entirely new races that don't even matter and players wont care about, so why bother?

They wont matter, they won't be effective and are nothing but a stepping stone for the Hissho, they don't have enough land to be a problem or to provide a benefit other then some artificial 'boost' that would be stupid and unnatural to the game as the player can't achieve the same with the same resources.

Small empires to attack, trade with or engulf would be fun as they would represent real problem to be resolved before you can compete with the other major empires.

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Codename_Veers

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Codename_Veers

Sentient Tweaker

12 years ago

Sep 13, 2012, 10:14:44 PM

I agree with Igncom1 that as a stepstone they would be good, too.

But that to be their only purpose would just bore me. Those little empires would be far more tempting as something to improve your own empire, by somehow assimilating it. Since they are too small to be a real threat to the galaxy and know that, they wouldn't be interested in fighting against you. So you would have the choice to either assimilate or crush them, making assimilation the more stressfull and expensive, but for the endgame even more promising decision.

They should however not have any kind of areaeffect or influence-radius, since that would thwart your own expansion. With that it could even be possible to colonize a Planet in their system, making trade and diplomacy more promissing?

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mhstierney

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mhstierney

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12 years ago

Sep 3, 2012, 5:06:44 PM

Minor races really need to introduction for anyone who's been a long term fan of the 4x genre. For everyone else, basically they're a faction which has limited influence on galaxy as a whole, but which can operate in a limited area and therein "complicate" things by making the player adapt to their presence. They might provide a foe to combat if the 8 main races aren't feeling particularly violent, carry interesting technology for trade, or otherwise become an invaluable ally in the fight against your enemies. In short they make things much more interesting!

For those of us who'd like to see minor races incorporated into Endless Space, there are several questions which must be asked from a developmental point of view:

- Is it fun? How does this actually enhance game play and the franchise universe?

- Does it unbalance the current races in game?

- How much time and money would be needed to implement this feature? How can expense be minimized while still delivering an enjoyable product?

With this thread I'd love to see anyone who cares trying to answer those questions as best they can. It's easy for us to say that the concept is cool (because it is) but making it a reality is another thing!

Sorry if this topic has already been posted about before, I didn't find anything which really properly dissected the subject.

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tanstaafl

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tanstaafl

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12 years ago

Sep 23, 2012, 3:18:26 AM

CIV V has "city-states" in addition to civilizations. They provide you with benefits if you ally or befriend them, and offer missions. You get a reward if you are the first to discover them. There are diplomatic penalties (from other civilizations) if you go to war with any of them. If you do it often enough the remaining city-states will even collectively declare war on you.

That might be a good model for minor races if you prevent them from ever being able to leave their cluster (don't let them use certain technologies) and don't make any rewards/benefits they provide dependent upon their economy. The idea is to add another political dimension, rather than just something more to conquer. Perhaps based on a custom faction (with cosmetic differences for each race) that has a lot of trait tradeoffs (slow traveler etc.) that take advantage of the fact they're limited to one cluster (and also severely slow expansion).

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Woefinite

Oddity

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Woefinite

Oddity

12 years ago

Sep 25, 2012, 9:48:00 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
Re-skinned, re-lored and possibly over several systems, a deviant group of sowers who are working towards a more peaceful solution to their problems.

There Lore possibility's with the faction themselves for multiple factions, like UE barons or different Craver swarms.

No need to add some half-assed new species for every minor faction, lots of 4X games do it and its pointless, they have no reason for being and no connection to anything.

I like this idea the most. I think it would add a lot of flavor to the universe and the current races, and make them much more interesting. New, meaningless races don't really appeal to me, unless they're primitive (but that's what Friendly Locals is for!)

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Talsar

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Talsar

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12 years ago

Sep 26, 2012, 11:12:06 AM

tanstaafl wrote:
CIV V has "city-states" in addition to civilizations.

As i read the first post i immediately thought of these "city-states" from civ. Having something like that could give some extra "spice".

But Igncom1 is also right. If you do a "half-assed" implementation of this without any connection to the universe and too much static ( i mean just because they are some "minor races" they don't have to be like the "city-states" always just doing exactly the same, staying at the same spot... probably a bit difficult to explain but i hope you get me. They have to be somehow dynamic).

So this is not only a technical thing it should be done very carefully from the narrative/story/creative side.

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Thufir_Hawat

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Thufir_Hawat

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12 years ago

Sep 27, 2012, 4:50:15 PM

Maybe something related to the races of Distant Worlds could be better than copying Civilization V ?

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iiyonic

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iiyonic

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12 years ago

Sep 29, 2012, 3:44:46 AM

i want to see minor races as well, the galaxy is too empty with just the factions.

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Fresh_Undies

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Fresh_Undies

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12 years ago

Oct 4, 2012, 5:01:04 PM

The fastest way of creating minor factions for a game like Endless Space would be to pre assign a certain number of systems to them at the start of each new game (not a large territory but something like 5 at huge galaxy, 4 or 5 at large etc..) and make them a sort of non expanding heavily handicapped version of the "mother" races.

Issues regarding balance can be easily revolved for a minor race by limiting the maximum tonnage of their navy to destroyer size and no higher, weapons that can be researched can also be tuned down to represent the fact that minor factions/races do not have access to the vast resources and manpower necessary for super heavy ships and ultra advanced weapons the main factions possess.

The concept of minor factions/races aside from the already existing "robot locals"/"friendly population" adds the illusion that the galaxy is not empty at start of play and that races/factions (aside from the near mythological Endless) before your own did in fact exist.

I should also add that an alliance with a minor race may add more strategic depth by effectively creating the reality of buffer states in the game. These buffer states can be shields between the player and another main (hostile) race that had decided to suddenly declare war on you but is unable to since the player's territory and the AI's territory do not link up, imagine the hostile main faction having to have to go through a choke point where the player's fleet using a system with ship improvement addons built slaughters the navy of the much larger hostile main race AI navy. Also just as significant is the fact that a non expanding minor race who forms an alliance with the player can be by the player considered a "safe" alliance and not likely to end in sudden massive bloodshed and war when the AI decides it has tired of the player or deemed the player weak enough to conquer.

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Codename_Veers

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Codename_Veers

Sentient Tweaker

12 years ago

Oct 5, 2012, 10:47:02 AM

Yes, that's a good suggestion! Perhaps we can even add, that minor races don't have Dust! So this way, you as a player pay Dust to them for Alliance/Support/Whatever but receive their military power or some little research!

For example, the peacefull playstile is always to start diplomacy as fast as possible and boot science, colonialization and communication. Military comes last and I usually have (in singleplayer) just a very small fleet untill I realy need it. To have such a "puffer" or Allie to help out and concentrate on military while you don't have (depending on the faction and minor faction of corse!) would be very helpfull - perhaps even against warmonger and steamroller in Mp.

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Bridger

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Bridger

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12 years ago

Oct 5, 2012, 11:57:41 AM

This is the function that City-States serve in Civ V, and I think it's great. Adding factions which are not trying to win the game is great!

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Fresh_Undies

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Fresh_Undies

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12 years ago

Oct 5, 2012, 6:11:11 PM

In order to understand "buffer" states and what kind of additional strategic depth they would add to the game I recommend people to read up on the Battletech game universe where the explored galaxy is effectively divided up into multiple interstellar empires. In the general game background story one of these empires the Draconis Combine faces imminent defeat and dismantlement as two other major empires the Federated Suns and Lyran Commonwealth in a surprise move that alarms all 3 of the other major empires forms a federation (the joining of two nation states). This federation effectively "surrounds" the Draconis Combine (in the 2D sense like in Endless Space).

In order to survive an obvious coming major offensive and invasion the Draconis Combine risks the majority of it's forces to it's southern border making it kind of "invasion" proof and in the Northern parallel it decides to give the Rasalhague people the nation that they have been fighting for ever since they were conquered by the Draconis Combine hundreds of years ago. The sudden warm relations and support of the Draconis Combine sees a minor empire of some 10 to 30 star systems form between former Combine space and that of the Federated Commonwealth and deliberately being friendly to the Rasalhague people ensures that they will remain neutral in the coming fight, this strategy has the effect of shielding the Northern "core"/ inner empire from a Federated Commonwealth attack.

The Draconis Combine leader gambles correctly that any invasion by the newly formed mega state will come from the much more weaker Northern region of his interstellar empire (since just before the union the empire facing his Southern side (the Federated Suns) had launched a successful invasion of the Capella Confederation and is likely not up to the task of invading the much more powerful Draconis Combine so soon) and the invasion of the Draconis Combine comes from the common border in the North that still links the Commonwealth with the Combine, given the Free Rasalhague Republic is neutral Fed Com forces are forced through the relatively small common border area (relative since it is still a few hundred light years in size) and are laid into a trap and eventually defeated by the more strategically placed Combine forces.

Yes I am a Sci Fan and geek

smiley: mrgreen

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