Foraven wrote:
That sound like you want to be able to taunt other players there 3.









I never played Civ4 so i don't know. But i'm sure my idea isn't that novel since some games do have diplomatic stance by default (thinking of Master of Orion and the likes).

It's more about the FF mod than anything else, but check this guy out. Fall from Heaven for civ 4. He got hired by Stardock and he's a producer and designer now.

I hope at some point there will be some kind of team play so you really can make alliances and win with them.



And the AI should accept trades that are "fair" or even a bit better for them. For now they want 3 x the things you want from them to get them to accept a trade.

You should be able to establish an empire-wide trade/science treaty that gives you science/dust regardless of established trade routes. The amount of science/dust would be based on the size of the two empires and how long the treaty has existed. It likely would have to start negative, then slowly grow with time.



Let's say the empires have these values: Empire 1 = 100 dust, 50 science. Empire 2 = 75 dust, 200 science. Value of trade treaty between empires is 75 dust (the smaller value), value of science treaty between empires is 50 science.



It begins with a negative value (so there is a start-up cost associated with a treaty). Let's say:

-50% to start, +5% per turn until it reaches 50% of value.



So, assuming both empires get both treaties on the same turn. On turn 1, they would both get -37 dust and -25 science. By turn 10 these numbers would have hit zero each. On turn 20 they would now be +37 dust, and +25 science. At this point, the rate is reduced to +3% per turn, so it would take about 17 turns (37 turns total) to reach 100% value. 75 dust and 50 science for both empires. After this, it is increased by 1% per turn. Either indefinitely, or maxing out at 150%.



I probably should have put this as a suggestion? I like it, anyway.

Cooperation treaty would affect this research/trade treaties in the same way that it affects trade routes. Or, that may be overkill? Maybe you can't get these treaties until you have a coop treaty?

What I would like is for trade to become important enough that to not have it is a huge disadvantage (Think globalization) but without it giving a strange huge advantage like science.



As I feel like that is the best reason why we haven't had a WW3 yet, because the cost of not trading is much greater then what could be won by conquering.



So usually people are much happier having stable neighbours and access to exotic goods.



But what about instead of a direct approval buff, what about allowing it to nerf the approval affects of taxes and overpopulation?



But yeah, ideas that allow peace to lead to integrated economy's, that benefit players using diplomacy over brute strength.

Stealth_Hawk wrote:
Diplomacy has so many ways in which to grow.



Exporting ships to an ally for



Offerring a joint military operation



Offerring a joint science project



etc. Etc. etc.

Of course. I hope the devs gets there in some expansion.

Nasarog wrote:
It's more about the FF mod than anything else, but check this guy out. Fall from Heaven for civ 4. He got hired by Stardock and he's a producer and designer now.

That would be a dream for me to be hired somewhere, but i guess nobody wants a creative tweaker, they want coding/designing wizard. Anyway, i'll give the guy a look.

Shivetya wrote:
Its not all that eternal from what I can tell

Yeah, just a dramatic name for "Constant Cold War that may or may not turn Hot."



Personally, I like 'Eternal War' Better lol

Foraven wrote:
It exist... It's named Eternal War.

Its not all that eternal from what I can tell

Diplomacy has so many ways in which to grow.



Exporting ships to an ally for



Offerring a joint military operation



Offerring a joint science project



etc. Etc. etc.

While i'm trying to rebalance faction for my FF mod, i realized just how useless diplomacy is in ES. Only the AI will bother to trade with you, any human player will avoid trading/making pacts with you to not give you any means to get ahead of them (unless they really want to team with you). There is no build in mechanics that makes being a diplomat desirable for both parties (unless both races are trades/treaties based).



There should be some traits that aid whoever makes treaties with you so even in MP other players will consider diplomacy with you before going for the inevitable showdown.

Nasarog wrote:
Sure, but I'd like it as an option in diplomacy, do you know what I mean?

That sound like you want to be able to taunt other players there 3.

I don't think you noticed this, but you remind me of Kael from the FFH mod on Civ4.

I never played Civ4 so i don't know. But i'm sure my idea isn't that novel since some games do have diplomatic stance by default (thinking of Master of Orion and the likes).

Foraven wrote:
It exist... It's named Eternal War.

Sure, but I'd like it as an option in diplomacy, do you know what I mean?

Foraven wrote:
After thinking it for a while, i found some way to actually make diplomacy matters in ES. It's still something i'm working on but i got some of the basics down. Basically, i would add diplomatic stance to each race. Things like diplomat, isolationist, expansionist, imperialist, warlord... All those would affect aspect of the game (the effect of trade, influence, war, peace, expansion disapproval, overpopulation disapproval etc). Each of the stance would add modifiers, bonuses or maluses to those aspect of the game so players/AI have to seek the appropriate state of things that fit their race. Each stance would require some relationship with other players, like trade, friendship or war to be at your best, thus force the player to actually do something diplomatically. I think this would add a new dimention to the game, even if the current game mechanics are quite limited in that regard right now.

I don't think you noticed this, but you remind me of Kael from the FFH mod on Civ4.

After thinking it for a while, i found some way to actually make diplomacy matters in ES. It's still something i'm working on but i got some of the basics down. Basically, i would add diplomatic stance to each race. Things like diplomat, isolationist, expansionist, imperialist, warlord... All those would affect aspect of the game (the effect of trade, influence, war, peace, expansion disapproval, overpopulation disapproval etc). Each of the stance would add modifiers, bonuses or maluses to those aspect of the game so players/AI have to seek the appropriate state of things that fit their race. Each stance would require some relationship with other players, like trade, friendship or war to be at your best, thus force the player to actually do something diplomatically. I think this would add a new dimention to the game, even if the current game mechanics are quite limited in that regard right now.

Nasarog wrote:
I wish there was an option that I could say: F-U and your alien species, DIE DIE DIE~~~

It exist... It's named Eternal War.

I wish there was an option that I could say: F-U and your alien species, DIE DIE DIE~~~

There needs to be a win criteria where two races can win. Not in normal games but as a separate gametype.

Foraven wrote:
While i'm trying to rebalance faction for my FF mod, i realized just how useless diplomacy is in ES. Only the AI will bother to trade with you, any human player will avoid trading/making pacts with you to not give you any means to get ahead of them (unless they really want to team with you). There is no build in mechanics that makes being a diplomat desirable for both parties (unless both races are trades/treaties based).



There should be some traits that aid whoever makes treaties with you so even in MP other players will consider diplomacy with you before going for the inevitable showdown.

...Welcome to my World (The MP)



Only Diplomacy in MP is some Tech trading (which isent realy a benefit for the gameplay at all and many cried already for an option to disable it)



in real diplomacy and real trades there is no bonus and no penalty atm.

And not enough connections to Trade.



The only *diplomacy* i see is when all other players unite each other if they recognize that one is far ahead of everyone else...then they share all their techs...and well that was it.