[Suggestion] Hero Permadeath - Endless Space

[Suggestion] Hero Permadeath

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MrAgmoore

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MrAgmoore

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 1:31:21 PM

I'd like to see Hero's die permanently, like in Master of Orion 2.

Or at least have small % of dying, even if it's only 1-3 %, perhaps modified by technology and/or cards.

The injured, pay-to-heal thing, is a bit too care-bearish for me:

Care Bears Intro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNm5Hqow78I

It would be nice if they aged, plateaued and declined in skills ( the aging mechanic in the remake of Sid Meier's Pirates ):

The character is in his 20's and has 100% movement , he reaches a plateau at age 25-29 but as he starts to age, his skills start to decline. Once he reaches his early 30's and very much in his 40's ( exacerbated by a lifetime of accumulated fighting and medical injuries and illnesses- which the game tracks on your character sheet ), there's a slower response time ( built-in lag that gets worse over time ) to get him to swing his sword and do acrobatic maneuvers.

You can see the swordfighting at: 3:12

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_hF_c0mxZU

What do you think?

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VIPXorUnison

Stellar

Fan of the Endless Universe since the ES Alpha. Attended the Gamescon 2012/2015/2016/2017.

VIPXorUnison

Stellar

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 3:03:01 PM

I think to just let heroes die or age might not exactly help to balance the game. Apart from seeing their invulnerability as care-bearish it would be really hard to balance the game with the possibility of heroes dying or losing edge over time, though I kind of agree on your initial point that the fact heroes are only injured every time is somewhat odd. In this case though I wouldn't go with what seems most realistic but what fits the game the best.

Also it doesn't have to be realistic, not just is it a space game, all species will likely have a much higher lifespan than current humans, or even simple immortality (at least as in they won't die without external force).

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davea

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davea

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13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 3:18:07 PM

In the pirates genre, the middle-aged pirate slowing down is a common theme. In space, especially since dust has "magic" powers, this does not seem to fit as well. But I agree with your problem statement that heroes seem too invulnerable. Rather than killing a high level hero (which would make me rage-quit to an autosave) I would be in favor of two changes: (a) eliminate auto-heal, or at least tone it down so that even with a high dust surplus it takes a couple of turns. But more importantly (b) eliminate teleport. You can use the same hero on any number of fleet combats in the same turn, all over the galaxy. It should take 1 turn for any transfer except same-system. Arguably it should take multiple turns to transfer further away, but there might be too much bookkeeping for that.

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Maclardal

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Maclardal

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 3:32:22 PM

@OP I agree that heroes are too all powerful atm, I wouldn't like to see their skills be affected by age, but being able to kill them off seems do-able. Maybe a near miss system, where they have say 3 chances where the killing blow could have struck, but didn't. Then any time a killing blow is supposed to hit after that it does and they die. That way when you know your hero could run out of luck at any moment you stick him in a slightly more secure position. You could then also use aging to increase the chance of a killing blow being struck. I really don;t like the idea of ageing losing skill, that makes me sad

@davea The current system of the heroes being able teleport is either a bug or simply hasn't been properly implemented yet. There are skills on some hero skills trees that say you now have the ability for that hero to reach any system in just 1 turn, leaving you to assume that they should be taking multiple turns to reach places.

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davea

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davea

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 3:39:17 PM

After putting in all that time on leveling a hero, if he got perma-killed I would rage quit and load an autosave. I don't think permadeath is the solution. But maybe it is worth a poll question.

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grasspuddle

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grasspuddle

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 3:44:51 PM

Maybe not permadeath, but held captive or recovering for several turns would work. Punish us for losing our fleet commander, not just heal and teleport to the next wave.

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Zougkla

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Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 3:50:04 PM

I think that permadeath is a bad idea, because it makes combat too risky.

But I agree that "healing" your heroes may be the wrong term.

Perhaps we should "resurrect" our heroes, Mass Effect 2 style. It would be explained as something to do with the dust...

smiley: confused

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VitunSuoPaska

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VitunSuoPaska

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 3:52:03 PM

grasspuddle wrote:
Maybe not permadeath, but held captive or recovering for several turns would work. Punish us for losing our fleet commander, not just heal and teleport to the next wave.

I would love to see a feature where heroes could get captured and then you could trade him back from the captor through diplomacy screen, with maybe 10 or 20% of him escaping on his own each turn. (would make the trade back option more suitable for the captor, as the prisoner might escape anytime.)

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thelovebat

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thelovebat

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 4:05:52 PM

If heroes could die or be captured, it would make the Horatio's cloning ability pretty useful in case you lose a hero, have him cloned before sending him/her into a major battlefield. Would give more incentive to play the Horatios.

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Raven

Timer

Raven

Timer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 4:28:12 PM

While it would make sense the only downside is being "unrealistic" and "carebearish".

Heroes which could die would have to be balanced through rather powerful traits which could eventually lead to the "undying hero" scenario as well.

In MoO2 it was a pretty fun feature but it was imbalanced in several ways and them being able to die permanently was part of the concept where powerful late-game heroes were supposed to be exposed to risk and thus you always made sure it never happens to leaders like Loknar. There is a psychological issue from gaming side, you'd never stick your heroes on risky systems or smaller/weaker fleets. You'd prefer to entomb your heroes behind a wall of indominable ships.

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davea

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davea

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 5:04:12 PM

Capture! That is a great idea. When I have a hero get injured, usually it is because I have had a total loss of a fleet in enemy territory. I think a capture/ransom interface could be neat and it fits very well. Although it is possible that you might have no communication techs. I guess that is more motivation to learn them.

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grasspuddle

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grasspuddle

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 5:10:12 PM

Capture/ransom hero needs to have a high probability they will escape in about 10? rounds so there is incentive to deal this person quickly instead of just sitting on it.

I'm thinking multiplayer. Don't want anyone sitting on one of my heroes for half a game. Especially since we have very few to start with.

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davea

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davea

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 5:23:44 PM

Escape is a good idea too.

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Zougkla

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Zougkla

Newcomer

13 years ago

May 13, 2012, 5:25:58 PM

Raven wrote:
While it would make sense the only downside is being "unrealistic" and "carebearish".

Heroes which could die would have to be balanced through rather powerful traits which could eventually lead to the "undying hero" scenario as well.

In MoO2 it was a pretty fun feature but it was imbalanced in several ways and them being able to die permanently was part of the concept where powerful late-game heroes were supposed to be exposed to risk and thus you always made sure it never happens to leaders like Loknar. There is a psychological issue from gaming side, you'd never stick your heroes on risky systems or smaller/weaker fleets. You'd prefer to entomb your heroes behind a wall of indominable ships.

I agree

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