hello



I´m very excited playing ES but something that annoys me like hell is that you have to play about 60-100 round to get dreadnaughts. When you have the technologie to build small battleships then you can also build big spaceships. I think the technologies should improve the designs but not allow you to build them.



I think its not balanced that everyone throws miniships at eachother at the beginning. I cant play tactical when I only have one ship class to build theres no possibility to combine the different classes.



Gruß

Even germans, during the WW2 used the first missiles type like the V2, it was only in 1969 that humans went on the moon.

It's not because You build smaller that you can build bigger

Hm if the stakes are right you can build everything. The germans could only build the V2 because they had the jews as their slaves for the production. In my system the technologies would make them cheaper and better.

Actually I think that it would be possible to make bigger if you can build smaller. The question is about what you cna do with that "bigger" and is it economically feasible? Mankind could probably build a tank the size of a residential block, it's just that it would be useless. Dreadnoughts in the game require some advanced systems that tech unlocks, and in the early game I believe people's economies just couldn't handle Really Big Ships.

The german couldn't build bigger for another reason. They didn't have enough knowledge about it. Like in the game about bigger ships.

THe american got the german rocket scientist Von Braun and he still needed years before finally make the saturn V. I think so it's normal we can't have the dreadnought at the beginning

And that is so interesting about building them earlier. When you need very much time to build it and you make this sacrifice then you will be rewarded with a titanship that can blow up hole fleets of miniships. And thats interesting in my opinion. In strategy games I always favoured quality over quantity.

If the americans let their whole people on it they would have had it much earlier. In germany it was the total war.

@Wotan:

more people <>better results and small <> big there are many different problems to solve if you want to make something bigger or stronger.



Then your suggestion would wreck balance all over the board if those ship classes could be produced right from the start. (in decent time.. they arent.. you simply dont have the production to produce even one dreadnought in early)

with the present values yes. that would have to be changed too. i will code me a mod ;D

Historically speaking, the differences between 'battleships' 'cruisers' and 'dreadnoughts' came down more to armor and weapons than to size. Particularly in early eras, some cruisers were larger than battleship designs.



For example, the Russian armored cruiser 'Rurik' (1892) was 412 feet long. The French Charlemagne class battleship (1895) was 385 feet long. The HMS Dreadnought (1906) was 527 feet long. Of course, the size difference in classes became more accentuated as time went on and ships grew more specialized in the era of long-range warfare.

are we still talking about endless space?

Actually I don't like the idea at all.

First of all it devaluates research.

Secondly it would give a huge buff to all those races that get boni on their ships (everybody except horatios and sophons).

Thirdly it would devaluate all the smaller ship classes (whats the point if i can build the better ship classes from the beginning and in decent time also in system that don't have good production values). Changing that would spell chaos for a good time because it would be really difficult to balance everything again and in my opinion it would make the military research part of the game rather boring very quickly (unlocking new ship classes and being allowed to unleash them on an enemy that doesn't have them yet... or being one ship size in the disadvantage and trying your best to survive with the smaller ones is an interesting part of the game and shouldn't be lost)

Wotan wrote:
are we still talking about endless space?

Perhaps not, but my intrinsic need to lecture sometimes takes over :P



As to the idea itself, it could work. I'd say something like this:

Break the ship classes into several 'blocks':

Small ships: Scouts (make a dedicated scout hull. Possibly with variants.) and corvettes

Medium ships: Frigates, light cruisers

Large ships: Cruisers, battleships, dreadnoughts

Huge ships: Superdreadnoughts (very expensive but utterly huge hull. Basically an endgame superproject to tie up those high IND systems.)



This better represent, I think, that your nation isn't so much researching a type of ship as the means to produce that ship. After all, anybody can design a big fancy dreadnought, but not everybody has the facilities to produce one (see Japan in the late 19th/early 20th century, when they bought an entire navy from Europe, or Russia under Peter the Great, where it took him just as long to build the facilities to produce big ships as it did to build the ships themselves.)



In order to keep things interesting, have variants of each hull which are unlocked by different research types. Perhaps even spread them across different tech branches.



For example, by researching something to do with advanced metallurgy, you could unlock a higher-HP version of the standard large ship hulls. By researching better engines, you can unlock an inherently faster scout hull.



I like the idea of unique weapons for certain classes as well. A 'supergun' that takes up 75% of dreadnought's hull space, but is devastating in battle would be quite interesting.

A 'supergun' that takes up 75% of dreadnought's hull space, but is devastating in battle would be quite interesting.

True, it would.

i would like to see that one in the game

StK wrote:
Actually I don't like the idea at all.

First of all it devaluates research.

Secondly it would give a huge buff to all those races that get boni on their ships (everybody except horatios and sophons).

Thirdly it would devaluate all the smaller ship classes (whats the point if i can build the better ship classes from the beginning and in decent time also in system that don't have good production values). Changing that would spell chaos for a good time because it would be really difficult to balance everything again and in my opinion it would make the military research part of the game rather boring very quickly (unlocking new ship classes and being allowed to unleash them on an enemy that doesn't have them yet... or being one ship size in the disadvantage and trying your best to survive with the smaller ones is an interesting part of the game and shouldn't be lost)

I agree.

It lowers the interest of the game.