My God, the tax rate is crazy exploitable. You guys seriously need a rate-of-change clamp on that badboy. Maybe like a notch every X turns or something.



I'm not a big fan of Paradox strategy games, but I remember EU3 (which was the rare Paradox game I liked) making good use of these sort of clamps.

I agree with this, or at least that the tax system needs to be closed a little more. Perhaps with the clamp the op suggested or maybe by having a cool down on the changes, much like reassigning Heroes. The bigger the change made to the tax rate could equate to a longer cool down period, which should create a bit more hesitancy about drastic changes to tax.

Isent the point that you can exploit it?

There are technologies - like 'adaptable tax system' - which fluffwise pretty much rely on the rapid responsiveness of the tax system. (Never mind that in a real world economy this would create outrageous regime uncertainty problems.)

Igncom1 wrote:
Isent the point that you can exploit it?

Not to this degree. It's silly that you can binge and purge your tax code in what must be a yearly period.



Imagine if we had 90% taxes in the 80s, 0% taxes in the 90s, and then 90% taxes again in the aughts. It's ridiculous.



It doesn't ring true enough to pass the smell test. Some exceptions from realism are always justified, but this isn't



Maybe the discontent from raising taxes could take a while to die down?

Maybe instead of slider clamps or discontent we should take a page out of Masters of Orion 3. Which, despite its bad reputation, did have some interesting ideas. Among them was that you didn't set the tax rates in the game. You told the game what you (as the galactic emperor) wanted the tax rates to be and it'd try to change them, subject to the procedures of your government. It took a few turns to implement a change in policy (and you'd have to keep tugging the numbers back where you wanted them, as the political AI would tweak your choices). Let's leave out the 'have to keep tugging the numbers back' part: I would suggest that you choose a tax rate, and the actual tax rate gradually slides towards what you chose.



The speed at which it would slide could then be based on your Empire Approval, your Projected Empire Approval, and your economic tech level. The higher your approval starts, the faster the change. The higher your approval ends, the faster the change. Having specific techs in the economy tree should boost the change rate further. You could change what 'target point' the system was sliding towards at any point, but instant tax changes wouldn't be possible. Even changes small enough to slide in one turn would still not be implemented until the next turn.



That would make the tax system less freely abuseable while avoiding what always seemed (to me) like an irritating restriction on my choices in Europa Universalis. I don't like outright clamps.

Platescale wrote:
Maybe instead of slider clamps or discontent we should take a page out of Masters of Orion 3. Which, despite its bad reputation, did have some interesting ideas. Among them was that you didn't set the tax rates in the game. You told the game what you (as the galactic emperor) wanted the tax rates to be and it'd try to change them, subject to the procedures of your government. It took a few turns to implement a change in policy (and you'd have to keep tugging the numbers back where you wanted them, as the political AI would tweak your choices). Let's leave out the 'have to keep tugging the numbers back' part: I would suggest that you choose a tax rate, and the actual tax rate gradually slides towards what you chose.



The speed at which it would slide could then be based on your Empire Approval, your Projected Empire Approval, and your economic tech level. The higher your approval starts, the faster the change. The higher your approval ends, the faster the change. Having specific techs in the economy tree should boost the change rate further. You could change what 'target point' the system was sliding towards at any point, but instant tax changes wouldn't be possible. Even changes small enough to slide in one turn would still not be implemented until the next turn.



That would make the tax system less freely abuseable while avoiding what always seemed (to me) like an irritating restriction on my choices in Europa Universalis. I don't like outright clamps.

Actually, that isn't a bad idea at all.



Your idea is probably better for a few reasons, but I disagree about a 'clamp' restriction being bad in principal. Games are, by definition, a set of bounds and restrictions. I agree that a clamped slider is somewhat shocking from a UI-psychology perspective, but it isn't particularly different or problematic from a game design standpoint.

I like it.

Choose a target tax rate with the slider, then a ghost slider for the actual taxrate moves up and down trying to keep up.

I don't see any problems with it as it is. I just keep it low till late usually.

see here for my opinion:



/#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/12503-system-taxation

I think Endless Space is aiming for a more Civ/Galciv-like feeling than a Paradox grand strategy feeling? I mean, I love the latter too, but I think a Civ-like tax system works fine here.

I agree with the idea that the actual taxrate is slowly aiming for the one set with the slinder.

I like the idea of a a "requested tax rate".