Weaponry is plain and simple way too inaccurate visually, keeping the accuracy for game mechanics is fine, however, visually it does need changing. If you've got a dreadnought with 14 laser slots, and 40-60% of those shots miss by several km, it just seems illogical. Advanced starships would have very advanced sensor and computer technology, they simply would not miss another huge enemy vessel, a small maneuverable craft perhaps. It really looks way too silly when my massive starship fleet is missing half their shots, would be more proficient to fit half the guns and invest in some targeting computers



Instead make the projectiles/lasers fire on the center and have the shots hit around that target, with maybe 1 in 30 shots miss. It would look a lot better to see more shots being deflected by the shield/hull. It would make you think "what an awesome defence he has" instead of "wth my ships can't hit for shit".

Also note I'm not asking for any actual change in balance or game mechanics, merely the visuals.



just my 2cents, loving the game so far, I'm going to end up losing too much time on this

Xavith wrote:
Weaponry is plain and simple way too inaccurate visually, keeping the accuracy for game mechanics is fine, however, visually it does need changing. If you've got a dreadnought with 14 laser slots, and 40-60% of those shots miss by several km, it just seems illogical. Advanced starships would have very advanced sensor and computer technology, they simply would not miss another huge enemy vessel, a small maneuverable craft perhaps. It really looks way too silly when my massive starship fleet is missing half their shots, would be more proficient to fit half the guns and invest in some targeting computers



Instead make the projectiles/lasers fire on the center and have the shots hit around that target, with maybe 1 in 30 shots miss. It would look a lot better to see more shots being deflected by the shield/hull. It would make you think "what an awesome defence he has" instead of "wth my ships can't hit for shit".

Also note I'm not asking for any actual change in balance or game mechanics, merely the visuals.



just my 2cents, loving the game so far, I'm going to end up losing too much time on this

I talk about accuracy in my two threads: /#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/11640-5th-tech-tree-military-doctrine and /#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13307-expanding-on-combat-doctrine-and-fleet-construction



Generally what I want when it comes to accuracy is another ship attribute. "Signature Radius" would affect accuracy and would make sense. Larger ships have a higher signature radius because they are big and have very noticeable power systems. This makes them easier to target and hit than smaller ships. I have a lot more planned for combat but instead of retyping it all here I suggest you just read my two threads listed above if interested.

Another option would be to increase the distance between the fleets. IMHO space combat would probably happen at extremely large distances where accuracy is not as important as trying to predict where your opponent will be in the next couple of minutes.

Mr.PortlySlim wrote:
Another option would be to increase the distance between the fleets. IMHO space combat would probably happen at extremely large distances where accuracy is not as important as trying to predict where your opponent will be in the next couple of minutes.

If we were concerned with realism (which we're generally not; it's a game):



Say, for example, that I have a laser, defined as a device that operates by the principle of Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation (L.A.S.E.R.) to emit a beam of coherent electromagnetic radiation. This laser, for the sake of argument, delivers an arbitrarily large amount of energy to an arbitrarily small area (e.g. 1 mm^2).



Say you have a ship defined by the following parameters:

a_max = maximum acceleration of the ship

d_min = minimum dimension of the smallest bounding box that completely encloses the ship

For the sake of argument, let us assume that your ship can rotate instantaneously (so that you always present as small a target as possible to my laser) and change acceleration instantaneously (so that you can dodge as rapidly as possible).



Let us further assume that my sensors that I use to target your ship are based on the concept of radar, but operating at extremely high frequency so that it is very precise. This means that, by the time I receive information about your position and velocity, it is no longer completely accurate (light lag).



We define the following parameter:

R = last observed position (vector) of your ship relative to me

V = last observed velocity (vector) of your ship relative to me



If I make a first order approximation of your expected position

R' = R + V*t

where

t = sensor lag (|R|/c) + weapon lag (|R'|/c)

|R| = magnitude of R

c = speed of light



The maximum magnitude of deviation from this expected position that your ship is capable of is given by:

delta_r = 0.5 * a_max * t^2



In order for my shot to miss (i.e. your ship is not where I expected it to be), we must have:

delta_r > d_min/2 (your ship has shifted by at least half the minimum dimension)



This gives:

0.5 * a_max * t^2 > d_min/2

a_max * t^2 > d_min

t^2 > d_min/a_max (relationship stays same since a_max > 0)

t > sqrt(d_min/a_max)



Since we have t = |R|/c + |R'|/c

if we assume, for the sake of argument, that since |R| is large, |R'| ~= |R|,

t ~= 2|R|/c



Thus the minimum distance your ship must be from me for my shot to miss if I assume your velocity remains constant is given by:

2|R|/c > sqrt(d_min/a_max)

|R| > c/2 * sqrt(d_min/a_max)



What does this mean? Let's try some actual numbers.

Let

d_min = 1 meter (sounds more like a missile than a spaceship)

a_max = 10000 meters/second^2 (~1020 Gs of acceleration)

this gives

|R| > 1.5*10^8 m/s * sqrt(1 m / (10000 m/s^2))

|R| > 1.5*10^8 m/s * 1/100 s

|R| > 1.5*10^6 m

So, in order for your ship (or missile) to dodge my shot, it must be at least 1500 kilometers away from me.



If I have FTL sensors, the distance increases, since t decreases.

If your ship is larger, or accelerates slower, the distance increases.



(Sorry, this has been bugging me for a while)

ArrowLance wrote:
I talk about accuracy in my two threads: /#/endless-space/forum/28-game-design/thread/11640-5th-tech-tree-military-doctrine and /#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13307-expanding-on-combat-doctrine-and-fleet-construction



Generally what I want when it comes to accuracy is another ship attribute. "Signature Radius" would affect accuracy and would make sense. Larger ships have a higher signature radius because they are big and have very noticeable power systems. This makes them easier to target and hit than smaller ships. I have a lot more planned for combat but instead of retyping it all here I suggest you just read my two threads listed above if interested.

While I agree with both of your topics and I think they're great ideas, this will be more of a change to the visuals of the game.



Huge starships(500m+ in length or something) flying in a fleet pattern, it just seems silly when huge starships shooting at each other is missing most of their shots when most of the ships fly in a straight line. I like your idea of deciding fleet patterns. The ships should be able to do evasive maneuvers, and again smaller ships probably wouldn't be hit much, the larger ones would still be hit.



The thing is what I see in game is slow ships shooting at eachother missing by several ship lengths, and I think this is a bit unrealistic considering the factions are already space faring galaxy wide.



Besides it is more visually pleasing to watch shots be deflected rather than having them miss.

That is some very dteailed math that honestly set my brain a bit on fire. Accuracy of the laser/missles/flying cats and whatever else is fired shouldnt be too realsitic to where they always hit or only 1-30 hit. Instead it should be to random as in some times the hit-miss ratio is higher and other times lower. I know we've all seen star wars and every other scifi thing and not even they can hit a friggin ship as big as a planet. Thats my 2 cents on it.

I wouldn't mind shots missing, but as I said it just looks silly when half the shots miss by several ship lengths, maybe 5 miss out of 20, and when they do miss the shots move close to the hull of the ship.



For reference

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LO1RBqJ968

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iOeFPE8574

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1Id9rIaWnY



Targeting technology is already advanced here on earth, in a few years the first naval railguns will be ready, and they should be able to hit a house on the other side of the globe if they wanted to, modern missiles have the precision to hit a moving target within at least a 1m radius. Computer power is doubling every second year, and will increase in power even further. By the time someone would be able to traverse the stars with FTL technology, targeting technology would be even more advanced.



I'm not asking for a change in game mechanics, just visually have the shots be deflected. Instead of having half of them miss by several ship lengths. It kind of sets the mentality of "What is the point of these weapons if half of them miss anyway, wouldn't it just be better to have more defences?"



Edit: some stargate love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVMgr_hRWFE&feature=fvwrel

Yeah, we already have advanced targeting tech, for our times. And yet, the vast majority of shots miss, because the other side has equally advanced spoofing tech.

I just wish to bring this to attention again.



I love this game, it's really amazing, but... It completely breaks immersion and it just feels annoying/frustrating when no matter how many guns you have 4 guns, 10 guns or whatever. It is incredibly frustrating when it looks like over half your shots miss... My plea to the devs is again, have the shots always hit/90% hit visually, and have the ship shields/plating deflect it. It is so much more visually pleasing to watch than your shots missing by absurd lengths.