I'm really surprised that more people haven't put in all sorts of ideas for this kind of thing yet, there's been a few posts about it but nobody really put it to the actual "suggestion" board.

VulpesWalker wrote:
Even so where's the challenge in always playing the same exact thing over and over? I like random events but I think there needs to be an optional remedy for some and actually make it a feature, not just a pop up annoyance.

The game has a random map generator already, which is plenty of random chance for me. Go ask everyone what conditions they'll restart a game under and you'll find that while everybody has a different threshold of how hard a time they'll accept, most people will restart if they get hosed by the galaxy generator.



The random events don't really change anything the map generator can't. How is the game massively different if early on my heroes get a couple easy levels? It's just me having an easier time doing what I always do. There's not much you can do to make the game play much differently, though randomizing the galaxy characteristics will do some of that.

GC13 wrote:
The game has a random map generator already, which is plenty of random chance for me. Go ask everyone what conditions they'll restart a game under and you'll find that while everybody has a different threshold of how hard a time they'll accept, most people will restart if they get hosed by the galaxy generator.



The random events don't really change anything the map generator can't. How is the game massively different if early on my heroes get a couple easy levels? It's just me having an easier time doing what I always do. There's not much you can do to make the game play much differently, though randomizing the galaxy characteristics will do some of that.

Really depends on the person, but even so if they follow through with the option for no random events then you should be set, but a better functionality for those of us that enjoy the extra challenge would appreciate a possible countermeasure.

Oh I would be very set if they added in the ability to turn off random events. For people like you though I'd still like to see the ability to do something to recover from the effects of catastrophic events like the one you mentioned in the top post.

GC13 wrote:
Oh I would be very set if they added in the ability to turn off random events. For people like you though I'd still like to see the ability to do something to recover from the effects of catastrophic events like the one you mentioned in the top post.

I could see that option becoming more available in beta on just simply putting a toggle switch on it, but in alpha I could probably only guess they'd work on the fundamentals of the process first.

I'm not sure. I think these random events are designed to add difficulty (duh), but especially later on in games. If you already have a grand empire, only a research of biblical proportions would pose a problem.



I would suggest to tailor the random envents more to a feeling of force majeur or to limit the effects to a certain amount of turns which would be stated in the random event itself.



As Vulpes already stated, a civilization would not sit on their hands when a star went supernova, it would take measures and within a certain time the problem would be solved. It would be more realistic when the random event damage (or benefits!) would limit itself to a (more) realistic timetable. But I wouldn't implement specific "event-research" to counter these events,

I would create specific research in advance to (partially) counter the effects of certain events. For example:



- better protection for ships to counter radiation (make this a ship module) (supernova events)

- better fleetdefense and systempolice (more like MP really) (against terrorism)

- better inner-system cyberwarfaresuites (make this planet/system module) (against system subterfuge)

- better medication/hospitals (make this a planet/system module) (against Rapt0r-virus)



To make these improvents truly useful, I would make the effects of the random events even more harsh.



In my opinion a global research that would clear away all the negative effects of a random event in a few (or even 1) turns sounds very, very unrealistic. Just as unrealistic as it is now: a civilization that does squat when something bad happens. I have the feeling that my suggestion

is a more realistic and more gameplay-friendly. It gives the player the option to prepare systems and ships specifically. It creates a more in depth relation to the random events and it makes ship and system/planet improvement more detailed.

Cadoras wrote:
But I wouldn't implement specific "event-research" to counter these events,

I would create specific research in advance to (partially) counter the effects of certain events.

Cadoras. Correct me if I am wrong, but your idea sounds more like a preemptive measure than a reactionary one. These would be "techs" you could research beforehand to minimize potential damage from upcoming events? Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. In fact, I was thinking you could go a step further and give certain races partial-counters against specific event types (examples: UE against terrorism, Sophon against supernova).



But I would also like some way to react. There has to be something I can do to respond to unforeseen events. That to me is more realistic. When tsunamis and exploding oil rigs cripple an area, we don't just shrug and move on. We try to minimize the damage and maybe learn something from it. It would be nice if my interstellar empire could do that too.

Prophet wrote:
Cadoras. Correct me if I am wrong, but your idea sounds more like a preemptive measure than a reactionary one. These would be "techs" you could research beforehand to minimize potential damage from upcoming events? Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. In fact, I was thinking you could go a step further and give certain races partial-counters against specific event types (examples: UE against terrorism, Sophon against supernova).



But I would also like some way to react. There has to be something I can do to respond to unforeseen events. That to me is more realistic. When tsunamis and exploding oil rigs cripple an area, we don't just shrug and move on. We try to minimize the damage and maybe learn something from it. It would be nice if my interstellar empire could do that too.

I like his idea as well... you can either build up in advance, or apply the fix after... which either or would only apply to the random event but regardless it would be a feature that would provide a certain insurance or even gamble on thinking maybe this/that or the other may happen, but no matter what either pre-emptive or reacting to the event both would be good.

Yes, apologies for the delayed reaction.



Indeed, it must be preemptive. We are dealing here with highly advanced spacefaring races! Do we really believe these races are not aware that certain events can take place? Of course they can act preemptively. As Vulpes beautifuly clarifies: the player must make a choice:



- save money and tonnage and risk possible high damage later on

- spend more money and create weaker ships, but make them more resistant to random events



But this will only make it worthwile if the random events have more dire effects. I.m.o. it adds extra flavour.

Cadoras wrote:
Yes, apologies for the delayed reaction.



Indeed, it must be preemptive. We are dealing here with highly advanced spacefaring races! Do we really believe these races are not aware that certain events can take place? Of course they can act preemptively. As Vulpes beautifuly clarifies: the player must make a choice:



- save money and tonnage and risk possible high damage later on

- spend more money and create weaker ships, but make them more resistant to random events



But this will only make it worthwile if the random events have more dire effects. I.m.o. it adds extra flavour.

Flavor... like cheese... Good like cheddar or sour like blue cheese on a summer day

Like Godlike-flavor, as in dripping Mozzarella on a meaty pizza.

I liked the random event system of civ 4, negative events would be little things like lose all the food stored in your capital or random quests that you could do. Just little things, not things that would randomly destroy your civilization.

I'm always for more options, so, yes.



I didn't realize random events were permanent, though? I did find it odd that they didn't tell me for how long...



I've been confused by them, actually. For a long time, I kept wishing they'd tell me which system was being affected (when I'd see something like "+/- % in system"). It took me a while (sadly too long) to realize that maybe it's because they affect every system... silly me.



If random events are global and permanent, though, beyond my general approach of "Options are good!", I definitely think it would be nice to do something about the negative ones. And I like the idea of trying to use positive events to learn more about whatever it was and "boost it", as it were.



I enjoy random events in games, as a general rule (keeps us on our toes), but even better if they offer interactivity and choices.

Cadoras wrote:
We are dealing here with highly advanced spacefaring races! Do we really believe these races are not aware that certain events can take place? Of course they can act preemptively.

I disagree, a little. Yes, many of the events could be foreseeable. But not all of them. Even an advanced race cannot prepare for everything.

I mean, the whole points of events is that they are unforeseeable. It is a wrench in your machine. A curveball. It is how you handle them that makes events interesting.



So while I agree with the idea of preemptive measures, I do not think it should be the only thing you can do to mitigate event effects.

VulpesWalker wrote:
I'm really surprised that more people haven't put in all sorts of ideas for this kind of thing yet, there's been a few posts about it but nobody really put it to the actual "suggestion" board.

Yeah.. I would think such an idea would get more traffic too. Maybe other players are not running into events as much?

I am really hoping something like this is in the upcoming beta. Because put simply, some of these negative events make me immediately want to quit and start again.



50% speed so early in the game for instance is a huge annoyance. Negative events should not be so bad as to persuade you to quit a game.

If the 50% speed thing effected everyone then it would be ok, because then it just changes the dynamic of the game.

Oh wow. I just got hit with the 50% speed event in my current game. That is so not cool.



Based on the text of the event (at least the one I got), it is a perfect example for this thread. The company contracted to build my engines cut some corners they shouldn't have. As a result, the engines cannot be used at full power or they will blow up. -50% ship speed.



The event is believable. I have several family members that work in jet engine manufacturing. Cutting corners does happen. And sometimes they find a flaw in the product after it is deployed. But the government doesn't sit on its hands and accept new limitations on our fighters. Not something that strong. It will push the company for a fix or a workaround. If they don't, then chances are the contract will not be renewed. Government will get its engines from a different company.



So this is an event where you could have all three measures added. Preventative (greater oversight of production), Limited Time (turn over production to someone else), and Reactive (get a fix/workaround to problem).

I like the idea of random events being somehow interactive and requiring the player to actually make a decision of some kind, otherwise they just remain something you might as well not take any notice of....

Prophet wrote:
Oh wow. I just got hit with the 50% speed event in my current game. That is so not cool.

Yeah i had that one in one of my first games. Annoyed the hell out of me and prompted me to post about it in a different thread. There should most certainly be a fix for this sort of event - refit ships, research new engines, anything really!!



More annoyingly in the same game i also got the speed boost event which speeds up ALL factions so here's me pootling along at slow speeds whilst the rest of the factions were zipping around like crazy!

n18991c wrote:
I like the idea of random events being somehow interactive and requiring the player to actually make a decision of some kind, otherwise they just remain something you might as well not take any notice of....

Yeah in GalCiv2 you had random planetary events where you had to choose a good, neutral or evil option of how to deal with them. The different choices provided different planetary bonuses and also affected your races alignment, which tied into diplomacy with other races.



I still prefer the idea of a special research options to handle events though

AtoningUnifex wrote:
Yeah in GalCiv2 you had random planetary events where you had to choose a good, neutral or evil option of how to deal with them. The different choices provided different planetary bonuses and also affected your races alignment, which tied into diplomacy with other races.



I still prefer the idea of a special research options to handle events though

Also not a bad idea, it gives different stat boosts depending on the course of action taken but may also affect a morality bar.

AtoningUnifex wrote:
Yeah in GalCiv2 you had random planetary events where you had to choose a good, neutral or evil option of how to deal with them. The different choices provided different planetary bonuses and also affected your races alignment, which tied into diplomacy with other races.

Ooo, I forgot about that. Definitely another way you could go. I gotta say, that is one thing I really liked about the Gal Civ series. Sometimes the events felt generic, but the choices you were forced to make were always interesting.



Civ 4 eventually added something similar. The events in the Fall from Heaven 2 mod were really cool. Often times there were options greyed out unless you had the right faction/religion/alignment. They could so something like that with ES.

Prophet wrote:
Ooo, I forgot about that. Definitely another way you could go. I gotta say, that is one thing I really liked about the Gal Civ series. Sometimes the events felt generic, but the choices you were forced to make were always interesting.



Civ 4 eventually added something similar. The events in the Fall from Heaven 2 mod were really cool. Often times there were options greyed out unless you had the right faction/religion/alignment. They could so something like that with ES.

I'd support that kind of change fully, though it may be furthered by pre-emptive technology that can even help you align yourself ahead of time as well? like 3 tech branches that can be furthered with your moral choices and have both pre-emptive or fix-it abilities towards all 'random' event problems you may encounter. But I'm just spewing out the idea as I'm thinking of it, maybe I'll refine it and re-post later about it.

I agree. I can terraform whole worlds but not re-calibrate my sensors? (guess that's what I get for buying store band sensors... in my defense, they were on sale...)

xyquas wrote:
Master of Orion II had a random event, where a disease threatened a specific star system. The disease could be stopped if enough research points where spend in the threatened star system (meaning research had to be done within this star system).



I recommand the same mechanism here: If a negative effect affects a specific star system, the research for workaround or neutralizing this effect has to be done within this system. If it affects the entire empire, maybe research has to be done on different planets / planets of different types (for example one Terran, one Arctic and one Barren) or different star systems (maybe 3 star systems that share no single star lane, meaning that they are not linked directly).

Something like this would be nice. It could show up as a new "improvement" for relevant systems to work on.

I cautiously approve of more player choice in responding to random events; less game of life, more leader of a country / Galciv-styled interaction.

Sunshard wrote:
I cautiously approve of more player choice in responding to random events; less game of life, more leader of a country / Galciv-styled interaction.

Agreed, because I wouldn't sit on my thumb while my civilization was experiencing such a widespread problem. I'd want to find a fix or a cure.

Master of Orion II had a random event, where a disease threatened a specific star system. The disease could be stopped if enough research points where spend in the threatened star system (meaning research had to be done within this star system).



I recommand the same mechanism here: If a negative effect affects a specific star system, the research for workaround or neutralizing this effect has to be done within this system. If it affects the entire empire, maybe research has to be done on different planets / planets of different types (for example one Terran, one Arctic and one Barren) or different star systems (maybe 3 star systems that share no single star lane, meaning that they are not linked directly).



I voted for yes :-)

xyquas wrote:
Master of Orion II had a random event, where a disease threatened a specific star system. The disease could be stopped if enough research points where spend in the threatened star system (meaning research had to be done within this star system).



I recommand the same mechanism here: If a negative effect affects a specific star system, the research for workaround or neutralizing this effect has to be done within this system. If it affects the entire empire, maybe research has to be done on different planets / planets of different types (for example one Terran, one Arctic and one Barren) or different star systems (maybe 3 star systems that share no single star lane, meaning that they are not linked directly).



I voted for yes :-)

One thing I also didn't note in this post sadly enough are the positive random events! I'm kinda bashing my head in about that one, but maybe even research await to 'mimic' the said event or keep researching that random event to continue it for some odd amount of turns to extend the time you take its benefits?

I agree that it would be nice to be able to do something to fix negative random events. I almost always get the one that cuts the speed of my ships in half, and being able to do something to get my speed higher aside from researching all the engine mods would be nice.



I don't see why we would need to do anything to keep positive effects, though...Maybe it would vary on a event-by-event basis, but if you go the one that gives you a colony ship for free, to two random techs that are instantly researched, well...You have the benefit, and the game can take those away. What could you do to possibly extend the time of the benefits?

FinalStrigon wrote:
I agree that it would be nice to be able to do something to fix negative random events. I almost always get the one that cuts the speed of my ships in half, and being able to do something to get my speed higher aside from researching all the engine mods would be nice.



I don't see why we would need to do anything to keep positive effects, though...Maybe it would vary on a event-by-event basis, but if you go the one that gives you a colony ship for free, to two random techs that are instantly researched, well...You have the benefit, and the game can take those away. What could you do to possibly extend the time of the benefits?

I agree case by case, but I had one that increased my engine efficiency for a limited time, possibly a small research to see what made it happen and replicate the anomaly in some way. I'm not too sure as I've stated in previous posts I still have yet to see "all" of the random events.

VulpesWalker wrote:
I agree case by case, but I had one that increased my engine efficiency for a limited time, possibly a small research to see what made it happen and replicate the anomaly in some way. I'm not too sure as I've stated in previous posts I still have yet to see "all" of the random events.

I wasn't aware there were events that gave bonuses for a limited time. The engine boost one I receive ever now and then was a permanent boost.



If there are limited-turn bonuses, then yes, I agree. Being able to do something to keep them (like paying an option Dust upkeep, or having so long to research a new tech) would be nice.

FinalStrigon wrote:
I wasn't aware there were events that gave bonuses for a limited time. The engine boost one I receive ever now and then was a permanent boost.



If there are limited-turn bonuses, then yes, I agree. Being able to do something to keep them (like paying an option Dust upkeep, or having so long to research a new tech) would be nice.

Yeah I'm not sure on the complexities of all of them but yeah either way you cut it this could easily be a fundamental feature that we can't overlook because it's 'too simple' to need to worry about.

Just a side thought to the main topic however, If this were to be implemented would the Sophon civ need to have certain restrictions or bonuses placed to make this really work in their favor since they are often weaker then other races?

I agree, though I'm not sure that being able to keep positive events going is a good idea because it would be randomly giving a civ an advantage, possibly (I've never gotten a positive random event so I don't know what you can get) giving a civ a major advantage.

So, my overall idea is for random events, you know the ones that cut your speed to 50% or cut your scanners down to ungodly levels and last forever, But my thoughts on that are this, if a civilization faces a problem so large and so vast that it affects everything in most cases they would research a fix or a work-a-round to get past it I guess what I'd like to see is something where you literally use research points to "break the curse" so to speak and move on faster then other races that are facing the same problem, and if a race doesn't research a fix they are plagued until they do research 'the fix' to their impediment.



☼ Engineering Problem With Engines = Tune Up



☼ Sensor Issues = Recalibrate



☼ Other Problems = (give me some ideas I haven't seen many of these events yet)



Overall I just want to see something feasible to put in the game and something that could add just a small tier of interest in the feature of random events, It could be game changing in some ways and give a needed boost in long drawn out conflicts where it's too even to tell, and just when it's looking like a stalemate you gain the advantage by researching a fix faster then your opponent giving you the edge, as it should be in combat between to major civilizations.

Prophet wrote:
I agree. I can terraform whole worlds but not re-calibrate my sensors? (guess that's what I get for buying store band sensors... in my defense, they were on sale...)







Something like this would be nice. It could show up as a new "improvement" for relevant systems to work on.

I'm definitely liking the amount of feedback this is getting and the discussion that follows, because I don't think we can afford to really shoot ourselves in the foot on a feature like this. Because it can take away from the immersion if as you said "we can terraform entire worlds but not recalibrate sensors?" and it cannot be said much better then that.

Right! I am okay if they want to set the cost very high. In fact, I'd prefer it (otherwise the events become nothing but fluff). But give me the option.

Prophet wrote:
Right! I am okay if they want to set the cost very high. In fact, I'd prefer it (otherwise the events become nothing but fluff). But give me the option.

Despite how comfy fluffy pillows are we can't have a fluffy game. or a game where you do nothing but sit on your thumbs while issues continue to just molest you into the ground.

I support this idea of increasing the player's ability to react to the random events within the game. +1 for sure.

I think different events should have different solutions. Research a tech, build an improvement, pay with dust, obtain resources, etc. If it's always research, that caters to races and strategies that focus on more research. Also, they would just become something to add to the research queue and that's boring.



What I would really like to see is the "solution" to an event giving you a short term goal that you may or may not want to do. Maybe to calibrate your sensors, you would have to scan more systems (i.e. explore 50% or 75% of the galaxy or something). Maybe you need to colonize a new system. Or declare war on a neighboring race. Something that makes you decide if getting rid of the penalty for the event is worth the effort.

I suggested something very similar to this previously (/#/endless-space/forum/29-archives/thread/13436-composite-suggestion-research-and-random-events). I think it's a great idea.

craigleton wrote:
I think different events should have different solutions. Research a tech, build an improvement, pay with dust, obtain resources, etc. If it's always research, that caters to races and strategies that focus on more research. Also, they would just become something to add to the research queue and that's boring.

That's a very good point. If events can only be solved in one way, then races proficient in that way would have another advantage. I originally thought research could solve events. But in 4X games I play, the research-heavy race always seems to dominate; they don't need another advantage! So you could have some that require researching solutions, other constructing solutions, and yet others paying for solutions. I like it.



To add a bit more flavor to it, what if the solution has no defined "turns to complete"? The player will only be shown the infinity symbol. Each turn the solution is being done, there is a random chance to trigger a "solution event." This special event will remove the solution being produced/researched/paid/etc and enact a bonus that counteracts the negative. If the event cut sensors by 50%, the solution event would increase sensors by 50%, thus balancing it out.



If you wanted to delve into it more, you could create solution events that only partially fix the problem. Maybe in the end your scientists could only regain 25 of the 50% sensor loss. Or, maybe we come out better than originally.



I think such a mechanism would make events much more exciting. It would give the players a chance to interact with them, albeit on a basic level. Besides, events smack you without warning. Why should the solution?

For the most part I find myself ignoring the random events, both good and bad. While some are definitely awful, I just deal with it and carry on. I'm definitely on board with making them a little more interactive with the player. The events should be either a localized effect for colonies or an empire wide effect for ships. Additionally, the event should have a rectifiable impact that the player has a choice to rectify or not.



Example: -50% speed on all ships should be fixable by applying a "retrofit" to all your ships. The -50% stays until the ship is brought in to a space dock and the offending engine is removed and replaced with an adequate one.



In the case of colony specific events, the negative effect is applied -and- a colony upgrade corresponding to that upgrade is removed.



Example: -Food production -and- if an agriculture upgrade is built it is removed. The -food effect is applied until a specific agriculture building is built. In the case of an existing agriculture upgrade being destroyed, rebuilding that upgrade removes this effect.

I am, in general, against random events in games (I always played Alpha Centauri with Bell Curve enabled). If you're going to have random events then make them small, positive, and program the random number generator to make sure it's allocating events evenly. Permanent bad effects from random events? I recoil in horror.

GC13 wrote:
I am, in general, against random events in games (I always played Alpha Centauri with Bell Curve enabled). If you're going to have random events then make them small, positive, and program the random number generator to make sure it's allocating events evenly. Permanent bad effects from random events? I recoil in horror.

Even so where's the challenge in always playing the same exact thing over and over? I like random events but I think there needs to be an optional remedy for some and actually make it a feature, not just a pop up annoyance.