So yeah, I guess it's self-explanatory. What do you think about pirate systems?



In my opinion it would be a great way to explain where those pesky pirate fleets come from. Also from a strategic standpoint it would be kind of interesting. Depending on it's position, it could work as some kind of buffer early on and you could prepare for pirate raids, since you know where they come from etc.



It would have to have good-ish defenses, since otherwise it would be too easy to eliminate pirates early on. Since pirates don't matter that much later in thhe game anyway, it wouldn't be a problem to be able to eliminate them in the midgame.



I could also imagine special bonusses in a captured pirate system, like stolen Endless artifacts that give your research a boost or something.

Liking it! Also mixes well with Araithiel's suggestion for trading posts to make the galaxy feel more "alive".



I could see pirate systems either not grow, or grow very slowly. They start off really strong (basically impossible to touch early on), but as the game progresses, you "catch up" to them and they become more and more easily manageable as you get stronger, out-pacing them. If you give them at least a little bit of growth, though, one that's left alone long enough could end up being a considerable pain, even later on!



I'd see the growth more as defensive than offensive, though. Wouldn't want them to spam ships faster and faster as the game progresses, but more that they'd be harder to get rid of with time.

Yeah, maybe don't give them the tech to colonize new systems. Otherwise they would just be another faction.

already now you can see pirates siege and take computer controled stars on newbie and easy with insane pirates setup, maybe even on normal. ive even seen pirates take out an empire.....

what if the pirates are given a system of their own, and they cannot colonize empty or invade players' (and AI) controlled systems. The only thing they can do is attack other ships and bomb systems (thus clearing a player controlled system)? a bit like Sins of a solar empire, without the pirate bribing

Pirates need anchorages or else they have nowhere to sell their loot. It would be great if we could hunt down and seize these anchorages rather than abstracting the system by saying we'll never remove a pirate base without colonizing the system.



Of course if they were using our ports to sell goods they had stolen that would be another argument for needing military fleets in orbit around your planets to keep them in line, which the game currently doesn't require.

Yeah, and maybe we could hire pirates who trade at our ports as privateers, give them an additional ship or two and let them fight our enemies. Or even let them attack our allies without straining the relationship.



Ah, crap. So many possibilities with pirates...

Dinadan wrote:
Ah, crap. So many possibilities with pirates...

I smell DLC...!



But yeah, there really are.



I like that pirates can conquer systems, so I wouldn't want to see that be replaced by the pirate systems. Seems to me there's a place for both. I wouldn't want them to be able to colonize empty systems (because then they'd just become another faction), but I definitely feel they should keep the ability to take over player & AI systems. As it is now. They wouldn't become a threat on the same level as AI factions, but I think there should always be the possibility--however small--of pirates taking over colonies. It keeps us on our toes.



I see pirate systems more of as a hub, of sorts. There could even maybe be quests related to them (both for and against, though I'm not sure how this would work, exactly...).



Random pirate fleets would still randomly spawn in the galaxy as they do now (maybe more, maybe less; whatever), but this spawn rate could be raised within a certain radius of pirate systems (which would be very rare things).

Dinadan wrote:
Ah, crap. So many possibilities with pirates...

So true indeed!



Add to the possibilities...



They should eventually be developed into a Faction of their own right with a decent background story.



Most people like to scratch that Pirate itch now and then, well atleast have the opportunity to do so..Yarr!



How would the Faction operate?



This might be one way with their own unique Victory Condition:



The Pirate Faction does not have a border; they are always at War with everyone so therefore never have any possibility of diplomacy other than attempting to be hired as mercenaries occasionally, maybe you could have Diplomacy and threaten factions with a chance of intimidating them enough to give you Tribute.



Their Capital system has to be chosen each turn (representing the clandestine, shadowy, nomadic existence), if enemy shipping encounters your Capital system you lose all production and for that turn until the enemy has left the system.



If your Capital is discovered X (based on difficulty) amount of times you automatically lose the game (could be too harsh but would make you sweat like the old Battleship's game and you trying to keep that last ship hidden from everyone).



As your pirate fleets explore they "colour-in" the galaxy map with their Faction's "Presence".



A star system on the map is uncoloured everytime an enemy fleet is present without the presence of a Pirate Fleet in the system.



For every system under the presence of the Pirate Faction, they take a percentage "cut" of the produced at that system (increased with better Tech along the lines of protection racketeering etc) goes towards the production queue of their Capital System. Uncolonised systems under a Pirate Presence would provide a cut based on the potential of the system at the Tech level of the Pirate Faction; this Tech line would be the Fence capability of under-the-radar/neutral ground dealings outside faction territorial control.



Pirates do not build or develop star systems, they develop Tech, have a chance of stealing Tech and they focus on building Ships for their Fleets which manifest from their Capital System once they are completed on their Build queue. They may have special Tech points on their Research Tree where you can buy Discounts to make it cheaper to Rush production (but that may be quite OP) - reflecting the Black Market.



Pirate Ships have a variety of boons and penalties in how they are built similar to the challenges faced by other Factions however with a Pirate flavour in mind. e.g. risky ship building methods = powerful yet risky/unreliable builds.



The Unique Pirate Faction Victory would be linked to Turf mastery where it is triggered by a % (based on difficulty) of the entire map being entirely under their "Pressence" reflecting thier underworld dominance of the galaxy and it's influence over the governance of the various faction's systems.



You could have fun with the Heros that would spawn from this faction and the possible events where extremely lucrative and dangerous opportunities arise, leadership challenges etc which could fit easily into the Pirate theme.



Pirates could add to the instability of governing systems too, really annoying the other factions that way as well as even and logically having influence over the Trade between them, maybe gaining more that way.



Anyway what fun you could have playing them and encountering them more rounded like this...

Oooooooo....



Forget DLC, we're entering the realm of full-on expansions, here!

This is like the pirates from SoaSE only way, way, waaaaaaaaaay better. Me likey.

@ Dr_Mox: +1.

Are there pirate heroes? I would love to hunt down a (relatively) huge pirate fleet and get a press-ganged hero and reduced pirate activity as a reward. It'd give you a nice incentive to get your military going early before someone else can snag him.



Pirate diplomacy is also a neat idea. Think of it as bribing one fleet of pirates to sell out their buddies. You could get intel on where pirate fleets are, map data on systems this particular fleet visited, details on pirate fleet composition, or you could just pay them to disband (alternately, you could pay them to not attack your ships for X turns, to attack enemy Y's ships exclusively for X turns, or to outright join up with your fleet). Heck, they could even try to capture and ransom ships to you instead of outright destroy them. It kind of sucks losing a colony ship to pirates in the early game because I'm too dumb to escort them properly, so it'd be nice to just throw dust at the pirates to undo my mistakes. I'd love it if pirates could be viewed as an opportunity instead of just a nuisance.

In most games, as in history, pirates are generally single cell operations. While I think gameplay like this would be interesting, I don't think it would make for a fun multiplayer experience. I can see this as a single player mod or DLC offered in the future. But we already got enough factions too keep us playing for quite a while. That's my 2 cents anways

Dinadan wrote:
So yeah, I guess it's self-explanatory. What do you think about pirate systems?

I think that it may as well be one of the other factions if the pirates have a system. The whole point of a pirate is to provide in game intangibles and randomness as well as a sense of urgency with your early fleet as well as getting your hero upgraded. As in real life, no one knows where the pirates come from, and they do just show up. If they are too difficult, then we can turn them off. Having a pirate system would simply be counter to the point of the pirates.

Maybe make ONE hidden planet around ONE hidden star that is VERY difficult to find called: Shangri-La with NO strings routed to it.

Nightscream wrote:
I think that it may as well be one of the other factions if the pirates have a system. The whole point of a pirate is to provide in game intangibles and randomness as well as a sense of urgency with your early fleet as well as getting your hero upgraded. As in real life, no one knows where the pirates come from, and they do just show up. If they are too difficult, then we can turn them off. Having a pirate system would simply be counter to the point of the pirates.

Maybe make ONE hidden planet around ONE hidden star that is VERY difficult to find called: Shangri-La with NO strings routed to it.

Already there are signs of the Pirates having considerable strength in the Beta, if people are inclined to switch them off given how much they can "crash the party" then its a feature the Devs might as well scrap.



There are alternatives! What you mention about a "hidden base" is not necessarily a counter to the usefulness of the pirates, it provides an alternative adventure to stomp them out before they begin to snowball as the current mechanic appears to do somewhat.



Otherwise, yes make them a Playable Faction. Pirates are colourful enough to add more depth to the background of this game, definitely a fun prospect. In my recent proposals on a Playable Pirate Faction I have created some suggestions for their possible inclusion. The Hows and Whys are by no means exhausted, I will be exploring more in the future.



Plenty of tweaking to what we currently have is probably the reality in Beta, however modding and future expansions may liven this theme up more. Yarrrrr!