So Labor and Wit could have a benefit when a Hero is Stationed in a Fleet, and Offense, Defense have a benefit when Stationed in a System. AFAICS, this would make Hero choices more interesting and flexible and allow some "trees" to be more coherent (like Dust Wielder).



Example mechanisms and considerations:

• Addressing the repair-out-of-battle problem (e.g.: a boost to HP repaired per turn from industrial boost %).
  
  
  
  
• Mutually exclusive, highest-effect of Heroes in System, universal boosting system, perhaps with "accumulating" effect to limit usage (e.g.: the Research boost from a hero in a Fleet can affect research in a System to "1/x" the boost if stationed in the System itself, but it only gets that high after the hero has spent "y" turns stationary in the system "accumulating" the benefit, and only the highest boost from Heroes who can apply a boost actually affects the System's Research).
  
  
  
  
• The sensor range Hero bonus effects seem like they could safely have significant effect wherever the Hero is stationed...it doesn't make sense to me for them to be Fleet or System exclusive...? If this is considered an important balance issue (and the distinction as described in the game is actually as things are implemented), could the opposite type count at least 1/2 towards the other? This would be applicable independent of the above suggestion (e.g.: Stationing a Hero with a Fleet sensor bonus in a System).
  
  
  
  
• Melee stat: Is there a plan for expanded ground combat/conquering, or is this stat just intended to be a tug-of-war stat working with the adjusted MP of the attacker Fleet versus the Defenses of the System? I think I've seen rumor or expectations of something along these lines, but I don't remember seeing dev confirmed information on plans for this...
  
  

This is not meant to be something that makes Heroes way more powerful, but something that helps broaden the applicability of all the Hero bonus effects.

I am against letting heroes patrolling a star system being allowed to participate in star system bureaucratic matters. It just doesn't make sense. And what if the system already has a hero stationed in the government?



The Melee ability is (as far as I know) used for the combat phase Melee. Aka. "Lasers hurt the most here".

I was about to agree with Mansen and say that a fleet leader stationed somewhere would still not get involved with the planet since they'd still be busy taking care of the fleet... but then I had a thought. When a fleet is stationed somewhere, what exactly are they doing? Just... sitting there? I thought maybe that having a friendly fleet might add some kind of security or protection bonus to the system. If the people feel better protected then it might encourage more passing trade, for example. So, a slight deviation of the original idea but perhaps:



Fleets with leaders: Very slight, non-scaled, percentage boost to system FIDS in addition to...



Fleets without leaders: Small boost to any active trade routes in the system.



By the first one I mean boost the FIDS by a small percentage of their current output, not based on the level of the leader (so it never scales too high)

Mansen wrote:
I am against letting heroes patrolling a star system being allowed to participate in star system bureaucratic matters. It just doesn't make sense.

An exemplary Labor and Science administrator basing their fleet in a system for extended periods of time doesn't make sense to have an impact on the research and work going on there? I don't see where you are coming from with that.



I can understand balance concerns regarding making the game too easy, but some aspects of my suggestion are meant to relate to handling that.

And what if the system already has a hero stationed in the government?

I answered that in the way I described it: "Mutually exclusive, highest-effect of Heroes in System, universal boosting system...".

The Melee ability is (as far as I know) used for the combat phase Melee. Aka. "Lasers hurt the most here".

I thought it was related to "ground" combat, i.e. the speed at which a system is taken over, like with the Support components you can put on Ships...?

I have an entirely different view of Heroes, I guess. I don't picture them like just another ship commander or even Admiral, going about their business, but inspirational and significant figures like an Alexander the Great, Napoleon, Ceasar, etc.: they might be military leaders, but they can have impact on the effectiveness of civil governance, or they might be government leaders, but have impact on the effectiveness of military forces.



...



Hollow:



The take on Trade is an interesting one, but while I have certain hopes on what Trade might look like, I don't know if what you suggest will fit with how they decide to implement Trade.

Here's how I imagine it working. The fleet commanders are busy patrolling the solar systems. Those things aren't exactly small after all and there are a lot of "ground" to cover.



If they were to divide their attention between optimal coverage of possible enemies with "Where do we place our farms for optimal solar exposure this solar rotation?", they'd have to perform at half efficiency or so in both areas. Which would make them pretty useless if suddenly attacked from afar (i.e. surprise attack)



And yes - it makes perfect sense to have a genius scientist or market tycoon stationed in a central place handling all the input and output optimally. They become part administrator, part genius worker.



I'm pretty sure you're thinking of "Invasion modules", but I could be wrong. I've never picked Melee - so many other much more useful perks (like the +2 free perks chain)

Melee is indeed the ability to invade planets and also defend them. This stat is useful for both fleet and planet heroes.

Mansen wrote:
Here's how I imagine it working. The fleet commanders are busy patrolling the solar systems. Those things aren't exactly small after all and there are a lot of "ground" to cover.



If they were to divide their attention between optimal coverage of possible enemies with "Where do we place our farms for optimal solar exposure this solar rotation?", they'd have to perform at half efficiency or so in both areas. Which would make them pretty useless if suddenly attacked from afar (i.e. surprise attack)

I'm not sure why you are tackling this from the perspective of saying this interpretation is the one and only way to look at things, though, so that what I'm suggesting doesn't make sense, and your description doesn't seem to fit with the "accumulation" requirement I was discussing (where it requires the fleet to be "stationed" there for more than one turn for the effect to build up to even the fraction of effect I'm proposing).



For example: a "Turn" is a game concept, and you could easily consider it a month or a year or anything of the sort, and again I say I don't see where you are coming from when you say it doesn't make sense that they might be have influence outside their specific station because they are not only be patrolling for every day, week, or whatever so simply can't have this type of influence. I'm not sure why you are arguing from that standpoint...my main concern with my suggestion is regarding gameplay issues and balance and I've tried to cover what it might offer and how to begin to balance it.

And yes - it makes perfect sense to have a genius scientist or market tycoon stationed in a central place handling all the input and output optimally. They become part administrator, part genius worker.

I don't understand how I said this wasn't the case or said it didn't make sense? What it seems like is either there is a silent "only" in front of the "makes perfect" sense, or you are understanding my discussion differently than I intend it?

Let us simply agree to disagree then.

demalion wrote:
So Labor and Wit could have a benefit when a Hero is Stationed in a Fleet, and Offense, Defense have a benefit when Stationed in a System. AFAICS, this would make Hero choices more interesting and flexible and allow some "trees" to be more coherent (like Dust Wielder).



Example mechanisms and considerations:

• Addressing the repair-out-of-battle problem (e.g.: a boost to HP repaired per turn from industrial boost %).
• Mutually exclusive, highest-effect of Heroes in System, universal boosting system, perhaps with "accumulating" effect to limit usage (e.g.: the Research boost from a hero in a Fleet can affect research in a System to "1/x" the boost if stationed in the System itself, but it only gets that high after the hero has spent "y" turns stationary in the system "accumulating" the benefit, and only the highest boost from Heroes who can apply a boost actually affects the System's Research).
• The sensor range Hero bonus effects seem like they could safely have significant effect wherever the Hero is stationed...it doesn't make sense to me for them to be Fleet or System exclusive...? If this is considered an important balance issue (and the distinction as described in the game is actually as things are implemented), could the opposite type count at least 1/2 towards the other? This would be applicable independent of the above suggestion (e.g.: Stationing a Hero with a Fleet sensor bonus in a System).
• Melee stat: Is there a plan for expanded ground combat/conquering, or is this stat just intended to be a tug-of-war stat working with the adjusted MP of the attacker Fleet versus the Defenses of the System? I think I've seen rumor or expectations of something along these lines, but I don't remember seeing dev confirmed information on plans for this...
  
  

This is not meant to be something that makes Heroes way more powerful, but something that helps broaden the applicability of all the Hero bonus effects.

Suggestion added to summary list

I think that each stat should just have combat and non-combat bonuses depending on where the hero is stationed. Wit, for example, could give you a percentage of the effect you would've gotten for a blocked card in combat/mitigate the bonus given to the enemy fleet from their card/give you a bonus on top of what you'd already get for a successfully played card; defense and offense could apply to friendly fleets in system (which, unless I misread something they currently do?). It seems like an elegant solution to me at least.