Well as in, we can't keep shooting the enemy because we have uses all of our bullets, requiring a visit by the invisible logistics fleet before combat can continue.

Actually, the 3 phases do make perfect sense given a certain condition: If the velocity of the ships are high relative to the velocity (relative to shooter) of the weapons they launch. As soon as they pass eachother that velocity is working against you trying to hit instead. Sort of like knights jousting. With something like (almost) instant laser beams it would be another story tough.

I think a draw would make more sense if melee was the second phase.

You would have:





I may have gotten caught up in a metaphor.

StriderV wrote:
Good ideas. The current combat system doesn't give that much strategy. It's sort of like rock-paper-scissors with a twist. I'd like it to be a bit more..

I both like and hate the idea of more strategy.. but you're right, the current one is pretty "easy"

Good ideas. The current combat system doesn't give that much strategy. It's sort of like rock-paper-scissors with a twist. I'd like it to be a bit more..

Igncom1 wrote:
Well as in, we can't keep shooting the enemy because we have uses all of our bullets, requiring a visit by the invisible logistics fleet before combat can continue.

I am all for imposing a penalty that accumulates to a fleet each turn it operates outside an empires sphere of influence. Fleets have two states, in supply and not in supply. While in supply fleets are replenished at 15/25/33 points per turn. The change can be represented by advances in technology. Fleets have a resource value which is diminished each turn they operate outside of an empires (or ally) sphere of influence. The base value of this resource is 125/160/200 (again based on tech) and goes down 5 points per turn to a minimum of 50/65/90.



Possibly to complicate matters but introduce a non combat module that can be expended to replenish X number of points as something you can add to any ship and simply fly to a system with a fleet(s) that need replenishment.

Igncom1 wrote:
Well at least I am trying.

Try harder, I have to say that this conversation is enjoyable

Well at least I am trying.

Igncom1 wrote:
Well as in, we can't keep shooting the enemy because we have uses all of our bullets, requiring a visit by the invisible logistics fleet before combat can continue.

Very bad explanation, because you can continue to fight multiple times in a system blocked by the enemy. Blockade = no invisible logistic fleet.

Hello!



I like the whole battle system, it's something different, never have experienced something like this (perhaps because this is my first 4X game). There is still room for improvement, though.

These are my thoughts and opinions:



[LIST=1]

The "DRAW" battle outcome should be removed. For me it is totally unrealistic that two even fleets simply... stop shooting at each other and depart. Either the attacking fleet destroys the enemy or fails in the attack and thus has to withdraw.

But what to do with a battle unresolved after 3 turns?

It's simple: just let combat extend for additional turns. In each turn the attacker has a choice: stay in melee combat and continue the battle or try to perform a fighting retreat. The defender would have the same choice - continue to oppose or abandon the system. In tight battles it would come down to taking a risk: hope to pick a good card that will give you the edge or suffer the opposite.

Live reinforcements. Today I was playing against the AI - I had 2 fleets worth ~90k each and the opponent brought 8 fleets worth ~50k each. Do the maths: my total 180k is way smaller than his 400k. But I still have won the battle, because my 2 fleets could pick the enemy fleets one after another. Totally unrealistic? Yes. I should have been overwhelmed!

How to fix it? Bigger, longer battles!

There are few ideas:

-Allow more than one fleet to do battle simultaneously with a reasonable cap.

-Temporary linking of fleets above the command cap if more than 1 fleet is present.

-Reinforcements! If one fleet is destroyed (or retreats) the next one should jump in and take it's place so the attacking/defending force doesn't have time to regenerate HP - This is the best idea, I think.

Face it - the game needs beam weapons. Not the slow lasers we have now, but a beam weapon like the capital ship ones in Freespace 2. Just for eye candy and the flash.

[/LIST]

Shivetya wrote:
About point #1.



One of my complaints which I have was that combat was, long, medium, short, and then poof... If anything we should have Long, Medium, Short, Short, Medium, Long, with a battle card option at anytime to request retreat that takes effect NEXT phase and requires you to be at long range for it to work

Retreat that takes effect on the next turn is a great idea, but the requirement to be at long range to retreat is too much. I think it would be much more realistic if we just said that priming the engines for escape takes one turn - you play the card, fight that round as usual and retreat the next round.

Shivetya wrote:
I would prefer to not complicate the game as such, turns are indeterminate amount of time and if you start nit picking ammunition then you might as well nit pick food too, or morale, or ponies, etc.

That's what I said

Pietrak wrote:
Ammo store would involve introducing a supply resource, i.e if your ships stay too long in enemy territory they suffer penalties. Supplies would be replenished either by retreating to a friendly system or by a special supply ship.



But adding supplies to what I already propose makes stuff too complicated IMO.

I would prefer to not complicate the game as such, turns are indeterminate amount of time and if you start nit picking ammunition then you might as well nit pick food too, or morale, or ponies, etc.

About point #1.



One of my complaints which I have was that combat was, long, medium, short, and then poof... If anything we should have Long, Medium, Short, Short, Medium, Long, with a battle card option at anytime to request retreat that takes effect NEXT phase and requires you to be at long range for it to work

Igncom1 wrote:
Could be a cool idea, but I wold speculate that more advanced technology produces more heat as well.



But yeah, better CNC, Heat dampeners and ammo store technology's to increase the time of battles could be a cool idea.

Ammo store would involve introducing a supply resource, i.e if your ships stay too long in enemy territory they suffer penalties. Supplies would be replenished either by retreating to a friendly system or by a special supply ship.



But adding supplies to what I already propose makes stuff too complicated IMO.

Pietrak wrote:
Ok, overheating, but why do all the factions overheat at the same time no matter the tech level?

When I think about it, overheating would be great. Simply introduce a "power generator technology". At lvl0 you are able to fight for 3 turns. Each lvl increases that duration.

If the enemy withdraws and you still have the capacity to fight, you can choose an option "pursuit" that gives you a chance to catch the enemy before he has cooled down his generators. Great way for improving battles!

Could be a cool idea, but I wold speculate that more advanced technology produces more heat as well.



But yeah, better CNC, Heat dampeners and ammo store technology's to increase the time of battles could be a cool idea.

Igncom1 wrote:
Mass effect does the whole, draw in a space battle thing by saying that if they didn't the ship would overheat, either killing the crew or blowing up the ship.

Ok, overheating, but why do all the factions overheat at the same time no matter the tech level?

When I think about it, overheating would be great. Simply introduce a "power generator technology". At lvl0 you are able to fight for 3 turns. Each lvl increases that duration.

If the enemy withdraws and you still have the capacity to fight, you can choose an option "pursuit" that gives you a chance to catch the enemy before he has cooled down his generators. Great way for improving battles!

Waylander1982 wrote:
It should also be noted that in an environment whereby engagements could be fought across days, if not weeks, thanks to the sheer size of the potential battlefield and the possibility of instant escape through physics bending tech that most ships would prioritise surviving to fight another day.



Honestly the "draw" system is far from the only element of battles that is unrealistic. What strikes me as odd is that the "Draw" status comes about as the ships are at their closest.



In fact the entire "Battle Phase" system is a bit absurd. If I'm rocking high powered long range missile weaponry then you can be damn sure I'm going to spend most of my time veering away from the enemy fleet hell bent on my destruction, similarly if I'm relying on short range kenetic barrages you can be sure that I'll begin the battle as close to the enemy fleet as I can manage.



In fact as an addendum, starting in melee would make far more sense.

Nah, starting in melee would be a bad idea. It makes sense that the fleets start at a distance. As you pointed out, the part that doesn't make sense is that a draw comes in the melee phase.

A possibility of closing and increasing the gap between fleets via a card is also quite fun, but it would make people abuse certain ship designs ;/

It should also be noted that in an environment whereby engagements could be fought across days, if not weeks, thanks to the sheer size of the potential battlefield and the possibility of instant escape through physics bending tech that most ships would prioritise surviving to fight another day.



Honestly the "draw" system is far from the only element of battles that is unrealistic. What strikes me as odd is that the "Draw" status comes about as the ships are at their closest.



In fact the entire "Battle Phase" system is a bit absurd. If I'm rocking high powered long range missile weaponry then you can be damn sure I'm going to spend most of my time veering away from the enemy fleet hell bent on my destruction, similarly if I'm relying on short range kenetic barrages you can be sure that I'll begin the battle as close to the enemy fleet as I can manage.



In fact as an addendum, starting in melee would make far more sense.

Mass effect does the whole, draw in a space battle thing by saying that if they didn't the ship would overheat, either killing the crew or blowing up the ship.