Linear campaigns in 4x games do not work but Alpha Centuari was a great example of adding great story into a freeform sandbox scenario.

Alderbranch wrote:
Linear campaigns based on a bunch of scenarios work. Scripting between scenarios means difficulty and units could be tweaked.

I still think the best campaigns made for HOMM for instance was in the 4th installment. That kinda shows how little is needed to make a good campaign based on premade scenarios.



I concur that Alpha Centauri was nice in that respect... Still play it

Agreed, SOTS 1 did that pretty well. I liked a number of their scenarios - objectives can add an interesting twist to an otherwise free form game.

Ashbery76 wrote:
Linear campaigns in 4x games do not work but Alpha Centuari was a great example of adding great story into a freeform sandbox scenario.

It truly was.



Then again, there's not many things Alpha Centauri did wrong in general. It was a magnificent game.

who dears to call sleep spells on devs her!!



Cast speed on slowhands!! Now his quickhands.

Hey, did somebody mention Der-





...zzzzz....

VieuxChat wrote:


*cast the Derrick spell : Slowhands returns to sleep*

ROFL, may I safely assume you are mentioning a certain German TV Show which was shown A LOT in France in the 80s ?

Linear campaigns based on a bunch of scenarios work. Scripting between scenarios means difficulty and units could be tweaked.

I still think the best campaigns made for HOMM for instance was in the 4th installment. That kinda shows how little is needed to make a good campaign based on premade scenarios.



I concur that Alpha Centauri was nice in that respect... Still play it

On one hand I concur that.

On the other hand the devs are right.



An expansion could add function with triggers and the ability to create small "Make your own adventure. Move to 3" like in King Arthur the roleplaying wargame, which is an excellent way of showing how a great story can be told in a game close to 4X.



*cast the Derrick spell : Slowhands returns to sleep*

I am happy that ES has no campaign. 4X games don't need such a part. Every single match should be unique and so you can play again and again. A campaign is only played one times.

Slowhands wrote:
Our idea with ES is a game that can be played forever, chock-full of different parameters for galaxy set-up, factions, gameplay, etc. and, in particular, the opportunity to do tons of modding.

Amen to that!

that is a murdoc point slownhands

Linear campaigns based on a bunch of scenarios work. Scripting between scenarios means difficulty and units could be tweaked.

I still think the best campaigns made for HOMM for instance was in the 4th installment. That kinda shows how little is needed to make a good campaign based on premade scenarios.



I concur that Alpha Centauri was nice in that respect... Still play it

We have sofar seen the overall gamedesign and heard about the features.

So what about a presentation of atleast the runnerup for some or any of the campaigns assuming there are any?



*Tries that summon devs-spell again*



If there are campaigns will it be possible to add more? Will it be possible to add something of story elements and triggers on maps?



And most importantly: what is the impact we will have on this in terms of G2G-experience?

Slowhands wrote:
WHO SUMMONS ME?? I was napping quietly on the sofa and suddenly *poof* ....

I blame znork, maceman, vieuxchat and the kiwis

Slowhands wrote:

To be brief, the game will not have a traditional narrative campaign. There will be narrative events, but for a few reasons there is no overall story/campaign for ES:

[LIST=1]

Gameplay. 4X games start with a map, and the game develops as the player works on their strategies and then unfolds until the player wins or loses. Traditional narration requires authorial control and a structure in scenes and events within a storyline, which means that the developer controls what happens instead of letting the player do that. We are far more concerned with making a great 4X platform in a rich and interesting universe; we're taking the philosophy that the players will each create their own stories as they play the game.

Cost and complexity. Adding a campaign narrative requires additional graphic assets, programming work, and then all the issues of text and translation over and above the basic game content -- and that's assuming no cutscenes and voice acting, which makes it even worse. Our budget is not flexible, and adding campaign elements would have meant removing gameplay elements.

Value. At the end of the day, the campaign is a lot of work for something that a player does once. Our idea with ES is a game that can be played forever, chock-full of different parameters for galaxy set-up, factions, gameplay, etc. and, in particular, the opportunity to do tons of modding. We would much rather put our time and effort into those aspects, which give the game value and longevity for the player, than to instead invest in a one-time campaign.

[/LIST]

Gameplay - understandable even though scripted events could add stuff in say scenarios

Cost and complexity - true that. But will it be possible to script in voice-acted parts and possibly cutscenes in some way or is that really really really out in the blue for say expansion no: 1293

Value - Well it seriously depends on the campaign. I still replay several campaigns on many strategygames since I like a good story.

Slowhands wrote:


However...



For instance, in an expansion we could add the possibility to allow for scenarios for individual maps. That could allow certain events to happen on certain turns, or certain conditions to trigger certain gameplay changes, etc. We think that putting together tools like that so the players could mod their own scenarios and develop their own stories might be the best way to do this.

Yes, that sounds like the smartest move. And also improves the G2G-experience id say.

Slowhands wrote:
NOW CAN I GO BACK TO SLEEP??

Well we didnt cast "Bind dev-member"-spell so I guess its ok to go. Unless you want to stay and reply to stuff.



However if the campaign will be non-existent then how will the ingame-lore be presented and where...

WHO SUMMONS ME?? I was napping quietly on the sofa and suddenly *poof* ....



Okay (rubs eyes) ... campaign. I see. Well, there is an answer, but it's long and philosophical:







However...



For instance, in an expansion we could add the possibility to allow for scenarios for individual maps. That could allow certain events to happen on certain turns, or certain conditions to trigger certain gameplay changes, etc. We think that putting together tools like that so the players could mod their own scenarios and develop their own stories might be the best way to do this.



NOW CAN I GO BACK TO SLEEP??

I wasn't expecting anything on this front, basically because it's not mentioned at all in the feature list; but it would be awesome to see the feature make it into the game. Nevertheless I prefer that effort is spent instead into making the gameplay as immersive as possible, thus an "emergent story" can be created; which is the main advantage of any campaign based mode in a 4x game.

4X games have campaigns???? I wonder if it'll be a campaign proper or a series of scenarios like the Civ games offer?

I'd love to learn more about the campaign too, joining you in that spell ritual. Preparing an army of angry kiwis if it doesn't work out.

maceman wrote:
I'd offer cookies...

I have heard rumors of them being of the darkside already and thus being able to make their own cookies... perhaps if they are yummy enough.

I'd offer cookies...

*adds some Dust to power the summoning spell*

Alder you need to call the expert dev caller to make that happen