It depends how you level your heroes. I give them some veteran levels and a bit of everything. And in peace they develop planets. When I need to attack they are dispatched to fleets.

That's what I call a choice. Having admiral while you're not at war is plain silly. Just use them on systems (unless youhave a hero with 0 in wits and labor)

I think TheBlueMagician might be on to something- but if we are making heroes less powerful, we still need to addresss the issue of how many should the initial number of allowable heroes be?



>3

=3 with the opportunity to increase early on through research, or resource..

<3 (I don't think this would be viable, however, to repect all opinions...)



Personally I would prefer 3-5 to start, especially if they're getting scaled back a bit. The more I think about TheBlueMagician's choice-based hero system, the more I like it... Hmmmm.....

Vieux - Sure, that sounds good. Maybe if you level beyond the minimum (10) for retiring a hero, every fifth level (15, 20...) gives your heroes an extra starting level? I haven't seen many games, even on huge maps, go beyond turn 290 or so.

The more I think about it, the more I like that idea. But ! It's an exponential growth : one hero --> 2 heroes --> 4 heroes etc.

So to retire there would need to be som eharsh pre-requisites : For instance at least level 10, 2 levels of veteran, one special building constructed (the academy ? for instance). And each time a hero retire he use up an academy slot (so to retire a second hero you would need to build a second academy).

Woud it be sufficient to avoid 256 heroes on turn 200 ?

TheBlueMagician - Love this idea. It would also be cool to have one or two random events per hero that can trigger; either just to add more lore goodness or to give small relevant bonuses/penalties from interaction with other heroes or in-game actions. Sort of like the old Alpha Centauri in-game script on certain turns or actions? Barring that, I can't think of much more I'd add.

VieuxChat wrote:
Or better ! You "retire" one of your hero an in exchange you he can train 2 new heroes. So you could expand but at a cost : a good hero (you can't retire before level 10 for instance)

That seems like it would both work well, and be the easiest to implement in the current system. It effectively allows you to get rid of heroes you don't want/need, and get new options that cater more to how you wish to develop your civilization. I like it!

Or better ! You "retire" one of your hero an in exchange you he can train 2 new heroes. So you could expand but at a cost : a good hero (you can't retire before level 10 for instance)

VieuxChat wrote:
Or maybe "minor" heroes would appear on some planets as governors or admiral. they would level up way slower but wouldn't count on the limit of heroes.

Or maybe legendary heroes could attract some "minor" ?

In fact I'd like a more RPG way to get them (through events ?)

I think a system like that would be awesome. The legendary heroes attracting minor ones, especially. Maybe as your Academy Heroes level up, they attract, recruit, or train followers that can be positioned on planets or ships (reducing their effectiveness to a single unit or planet, rather than having them affect a system or fleet).



I still feel, however, there needs to be more of a choice between effective military heroes and effective system heroes. Either difficult research perks that make one or the other more effective, or something like that. I don't think I've ever benched in favor of a new one ever.

Or maybe "minor" heroes would appear on some planets as governors or admiral. they would level up way slower but wouldn't count on the limit of heroes.

Or maybe legendary heroes could attract some "minor" ?

In fact I'd like a more RPG way to get them (through events ?)

VieuxChat wrote:
It depends how you level your heroes. I give them some veteran levels and a bit of everything. And in peace they develop planets. When I need to attack they are dispatched to fleets.

That's what I call a choice. Having admiral while you're not at war is plain silly. Just use them on systems (unless youhave a hero with 0 in wits and labor)

That's what I call min/maxing. The only choice made there is whether to be at war or to be at peace, and allocating your resources appropriately. What I proposed provides a framework to develop long-term plans for either production/planet based gameplay, warmongering gameplay, or attempting to do both (which ideally would be very difficult).

Hey everyone,

Searched for a prior thread...



Just wondering, how to increase the hero-cap at academies?



Fantastic f***ing game btw!



...It needed to be said!



Cheers in advance

VieuxChat wrote:
I think that making choices is a great thing. Moreover the heroes can be really impressive. So I prefer the way it is : you have to make a choice between fleets and planets. But only 3 ?

I would argue there isn't much choice in the system your presenting, though, just an expansion of how many heroes you can have.



Right now, heroes are either CLEARLY made to be stuck on a planet, or CLEARLY made to be stuck on a fleet, which is why I would argue there isn't a real or substantial choice to be made here.



This is compounded by the fact you get heroes relatively slowly in the game, meaning you are frequently stuck with who you get for a long time. When new heroes do arrive, I feel that there is, again, a lack of a substantial choice: keep your leveled heroes, or get a totally fresh one that is way less effective?



Adding in more heroes doesn't address this problem, I feel, it only makes it easier to game the system by having higher production and fleet performance.



The system I would propose separates the two, and puts the choices in what type of each hero to get.



What I would suggest:



Meta

Provide 2 categories of hero:

• Fleet Commander
• Governor
  
  

Provide 3 sub-categories:

Fleet Commander

• Pilot (increased offense/defense?)
• Admiral (increased fleet size?)
• Tactician (increased support?)
  
  

Governor

• Production (increases various FIDS)
• Trader (increases trade bonuses)
• Politican (increases happiness/other things)
  
  

General changes

• Decrease the effectiveness of ALL HEROES
• Give the player a penalty for dismissing heroes
• Give "personalities" to heroes by having them conflict with other heroes (either/or choices)
• Maybe have certain requirements for hiring heroes (X amount of FIDS, certain fleet size, etc)
• Have an academy for both governors and fleet commanders
  
  

Reasoning: incentivize players making long term decisions about their play style, not hiring heroes arbitrarily, and creating conflicts of interest with hiring leading to more interesting choices



Game start

• Reduce the starting Academy Size (allowed heroes) to one.
• Provide 3 fleet heroes and 3 governors
  
  

Reasoning: this gives you several options, but allows you to pick only one. By the time you can hire even a single hero, you will have charted at least one system (I would hope), giving you incentive for one or the other. Additionally, the specific benefits of the different sub-categories would allow for customization of play style.



Game Progession

• Provide more research opportunities to expand Academy Size of both categories
• Increase the rate at which heroes are available
• Make research that expands Fleet/Governor on different research trees
  
  

Reasoning: provides ample opportunity to expand hero hiring as it becomes effective, and allows for fine tuned customization to both fleet and production play style. Reduces the rate of arbitrary hires based on no other available options. It also makes people chose which Academy to expand, further customizing their play style and encouraging substantial long-term planning through choice.





Something like that seems fairly simple (at least to me; just a series of logic checks for the requirements/"personalities," and some tuning/categorization for the types and sub-types) and it would address the problem of choice I feel there currently is.

I think that making choices is a great thing. Moreover the heroes can be really impressive. So I prefer the way it is : you have to make a choice between fleets and planets. But only 3 ?

VieuxChat wrote:
I just hate being limited to 3 heroes. There should be at least an early tech that would add 1 more available hero (because the other two techs add 2 and 3).

I think if they separated the heroes into two major types (and perhaps those types have subtypes), Fleet and Governor, it would be nice. 3 Fleet commanders/pilots, and 3 Governors. Granted, the benefits from at least the governor type would have to be toned down, but I think it'd help make the heroes seem a bit more...present.

I just hate being limited to 3 heroes. There should be at least an early tech that would add 1 more available hero (because the other two techs add 2 and 3).

more heroes

drewitt wrote:
Thank you! Quick response!



BlueMagician INDEED!

Glad I could help :P I remembered looking for it earlier today myself, so it was fresh in my mind.

TheBlueMagician wrote:
There's a research option on the left (economics?) side near the top of the branch that allows you to do it. It's fairly far down the path, though



It has an alien looking icon for one of the abilities, I believe.

Thank you! Quick response!



BlueMagician INDEED!

Also, apologize if this isn't the place for this thread- seemed logical at the time...

There's a research option on the left (economics?) side near the top of the branch that allows you to do it. It's fairly far down the path, though



It has an alien looking icon for one of the abilities, I believe.