Reposting it here in the Bug section so it can get more attention and hopefully solved/fixed by the Devs.

CheekyMonkey wrote:
I'm having an issue with The Harmony not correctly producing science points.



Here's what I had at the start (well turn 8 actually);



Medium Tundra (+2/pop)

Geo-industrial plan (n/a)

Seismic Activity (+1/pop)

Titanium (n/a)



3 pop on planet, should be "9 from planets" mouseover science reads "8 from planets"

also;



Small terran (+2/pop)

No exploitation (n/a)

Coral reefs (n/a)

Hyrperium (+1/pop)



3 pop should be "9 from planets" mouseover science only reads "6 from planets"



Play goes on and 7 turns later I have;



Medium Tundra (+2/pop)

Geo-industrial plan (n/a)

Seismic Activity (+1/pop)

Titanium (n/a)

Heavy Isotope refineries (n/a)

Silic Soils (n/a)

Public-Private partnerships (+1/pop)



now 6 pop should be "24 from planets" mouseover science reads "20 from planets"



And then the big one I just don't get at all;



Small terran (+2/pop)

No exploitation (n/a)

Coral reefs (n/a)

Hyrperium (+1/pop)

Heavy Isotope refineries (n/a)

Silic Soils (n/a)

Public-Private partnerships (+1/pop)



now 6 pop should be "24 from planets" mouseover science reads "7 from planets" !!!!!!



How is "7" possible?!?

No this is not due to some "factor" like the slider, distance from empire, disharmony, ect. All those are listed after the "amount from planets" in the slider mouseover.

Nor should this be due to the Harmony racial as dust on the systems should only be affecting industry and food production, not science. But even if it does affect science, I don't see how that adds up to "7" on that last planet.



If it has any bearing;

Its turn 15

difficulty level serious

Medium galaxy "Spiral-8" with 8 players.

those are my only 2 systems

No ships are orbiting either planet.

Both planets are currently producing a colony ship.

Slider is set to 50/50

"Other" items under the science mouseover for that terran planet;

+ 0.1 from Efficient stock

- 3.4 from distance from empire



Also;

Playing custom harmony with following traits;

Efficient Stock

Unlucky Colonist (became seismic activity)

Builders +++

Crowded Planets

Anarchists --

N-way fusion plants

Core Mining

Xenobotany

Black thumbs

Eternal war

Asceticism

Compact Fusion reactors

Strategically resourceful

Isolation Shields

Optimal Structure ++

Feeble Warriors





Would like an answer, I really want to try and get harmony working, but if their early FIDS are just all messed up, then why bother?

And yes this is a FIDS problem and not just a tooltip issue, those are the actual science points i'm getting each turn.

Sovereign wrote:
That made me curios and a just started also a game with the Harmony and even at turn 1 at your very first planet there seems realy be something wrong with the amount of Science.



The "amount from planet" is just not as high as it should be.



Example turn one Tundra brings 2 Science per Population you start with 3 Pop.

That would be 6 Science from Planet.



But its only 5?

And there is no malus or whatsoever listed.



The Harmony can get huge a Science bonus with their Slider but i always got the feeling that they produce way less Science then other races at least for the high % Boni.



Maybe thats the reason.

adder wrote:
The Harmony slider starts at 40%, which means +20% -20%

If you place it at 50% (no changes to :food their home system produces 7 in the first turn.

Sovereign wrote:
7 from System - 2 for its a homeystem = only 5 from planet.



it should be 8 from System in the very first turn with 50% Slider





EDIT: okay made some tests it it has something to do with the difficulty at the lowest difficulty you got 7.6 first turn with a 50% Slider on Highest difficulty u get only 6.6



i guess there is goes something wrong with the Disharmony malus which is bound to the difficult level BUT with only 1 System and 1 Planet there shouldnt be any Disharmony malus at all also its not listed up



-.-

Most Underpowered race even worse due bug?-.-

at the very least its a huge display error but i guess its more like we loose real like CheekyMonkey said.



Devs?

The devs have been notified of this already - we'll see what comes up!



BTW, I did some tests - this also applies to food.

Newbie: +6 from planets +5 from system -6 consumption =4

Endless: +5 from planets + 5 from system -6 consumption = 3



Calculations also don't make sense, because 6+5-6=5 and not 4.

Science,Comparedtohoratio,turn1 wrote:
(with planets of the same science specs = tundra & arid)



Newbie difficulty:

Horatio: 6from system +2 from main system =8

Harmony: 6from system +2 from main system = 7



Same weird calculations on higher difficulty:



endless difficulty:

Horatio: 6from planets +2from main system = 8

Harmony: 5fromplanets +2from main system = 6

The best guess right now is that this stems from a not accounted for amount of -FIS for disharmony. Tundrae produce dust, so it's viable to think that this reduces FIS from start to finish. And since Disharmony is a modifier dependent on difficulty, it could explain the even lower FIS output in the end.

Nos is correct, as usual. I removed the dust from the tundra planet and now our science and food are "correct". This is on endless difficulty.

adder wrote:




Nos is correct, as usual. I removed the dust from the tundra planet and now our science and food are "correct". This is on endless difficulty.

Nah, I just asked Meedoc, yesterday, and he made an educated guess without looking at the code.

adder wrote:
The devs have been notified of this already - we'll see what comes up!



BTW, I did some tests - this also applies to food.

Newbie: +6 from planets +5 from system -6 consumption =4

Endless: +5 from planets + 5 from system -6 consumption = 3



Calculations also don't make sense, because 6+5-6=5 and not 4.

I am wondering why Industrie is not affected it should be too (Dust/Disharmony)

or is this bug in the end also connected with the Harmony "Tax" Slider?

Either Industry is not affected or is affected very differently by Dust than Food & Science. I've had planets with a -99 Food Disharmony penalty and 0 Industry penalty. I've been thinking it is a feature.

From the Endless Space wiki :

% on Systems provokes loss on and Small.



Disharmony: Decreases on Empire for each "impure" System.

http://endlessspace.wikia.com/wiki/Harmony#Traits

Actually, this display "error" has always been here: the values are simply rounded up. However, if you look at the tooltip in the planet view, you will be able to read the true value.



Cheers,

Meedoc wrote:
Actually, this display "error" has always been here: the values are simply rounded up. However, if you look at the tooltip in the planet view, you will be able to read the true value.



Cheers,

Sry but i dont get your post Meedoc.

sry it makes no sense to me either there is a clearly not listed up Disharmony malus right from the start which is affacting Food and Science but strangely not Industrie or not.



And if Yes its not listed up properly.



And some numbers we checked are with first decimal place so yes we checked the tooltip panel.



Give me some math

Here's what's going on: the Harmony have two penalties to their economic output. It looks like everyone here is familiar with Disharmony, the equivalent of expansion disapproval. The other is a food and science penalty for producing Dust and is supposed to be a rough equivalent for overpopulation disapproval. It was systemwide prior to 1.1.27, but the patch notes mentioned that it was modified to be per-planet in that patch. If you click on a planet to bring up the screen for its individual FIDS output and mouse over food or science, the tooltip will display a "-xx From Planet" that's the same value as the missing output.



As we worked out in this thread, the formula seems to be:



Dust produced by planet x overpopulation disapproval modifier x constant = percentage planet's of output lost



It appears to be working as intended, although this doesn't make it a good mechanic or justify that an uniformative and hard-to-find tooltip is the only way that the game presents it to the player.

HundredBears wrote:
Here's what's going on: the Harmony have two penalties to their economic output. It looks like everyone here is familiar with Disharmony, the equivalent of expansion disapproval. The other is a food and science penalty for producing Dust and is supposed to be a rough equivalent for overpopulation disapproval. It was systemwide prior to 1.1.27, but the patch notes mentioned that it was modified to be per-planet in that patch. If you click on a planet to bring up the screen for its individual FIDS output and mouse over food or science, the tooltip will display a "-xx From Planet" that's the same value as the missing output.



As we worked out in this thread, the formula seems to be:



Dust produced by planet x overpopulation disapproval modifier x constant = percentage planet's of output lost



It appears to be working as intended, although this doesn't make it a good mechanic or justify that an uniformative and hard-to-find tooltip is the only way that the game presents it to the player.

ahhh the patch, now i get it.



still its confusing and it should be displayed in the other tool tipp sections (Empire Screen, System Screen)

Having an actual dust output, planet and empire wide. would be quite usefull. thus the "have no dust" is not applied on planet basis but on empire/turnend basis, thus you would know how much dust is in your gears.