questions: how to make a starbase - Endless Space

questions: how to make a starbase

Copied to clipboard!

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 6:28:48 AM

Blah, it's annoying to be first in something but it seems that it's something what has stuck to me... I do things first and then others wonder how I did those.

Making new technologies is easy, hiding old ones is painful. You can only so many times transfer locked ones elsewhere and due to coding unlocks are quite valuable.

Wonder whether one can just simple slab unlock "if moon turns to red and starts to sing symphonies" path prerequisite to those technologies.

Atleast game should after that recognize that those technologies exists but wouldn't show to anyone.

0badgesSend private message

seanw3

Newcomer

seanw3

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 6:43:33 PM

Warp travel can be blocked and even controlled by a strong starbase.

Has anyone figured out how to make a massive starbase ship design?

0badgesSend private message

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 6:47:14 PM

Hupailija wrote:
I so miss you from commenting to my ideas in mods :/

I mean where I am without person who starts to suddenly change weapons just because new stats makes more sense (and then argues with me about correct values... boy, that was fun)

Or without person who suddenly gets wicked idea that the wider race spreads the more intelligent they become... that thing teached me a lot.

Blah, modding is too easy now, I can do any change without having to worry anything and it works on first try.

It's not anymore: "try, pray, remove 10 last changes, try again, write 8 changes, try, remove 5 changes, try"

more like: "do something, notice that it works, do something else, notice that it works" ... Wheres all the fun in it!?

I still have the fun of not knowing why my mod doesn't work!

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 6:49:44 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
I still have the fun of not knowing why my mod doesn't work!

Booo!

I want to get to same situation too (well ok, I did manage to get 1 hilarious crash: Did delete whole diplomatic science xml and replacing it with 100 copies of same techonology ... for some reason game didn't understand why I wanted to do it :P)

0badgesSend private message

VIPiblise

Newcomer

VIPiblise

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 6:53:21 PM

I'm still working away on starbases - have no fear!

So far:

engine module preventing movement (mostly)

civilian modules (industry/food/food) almost working

smiley: stickouttongue

weaponization - not started yet

custom models - not possible yet

0badgesSend private message

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 6:59:53 PM

huh....a module that gives a system industry?

Could you also make a affinity for such a thing, giving every ships this benefit? (That would make for the idea of a nomadic empire possible, making your best world where every your fleet is.)

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 7:00:41 PM

iblise wrote:
I'm still working away on starbases - have no fear!

So far:

engine module preventing movement (mostly)

civilian modules (industry/food/food) almost working

weaponization - not started yet

custom models - not possible yet

And you!

I want you to suggest something completly ridiculous which is completly imposible to do... so far you have managed most of the time in my mods cause this: "uhm, I got nooooo ideas how to do it, developers didn't even think it".

Imagine what would happen if you, me and Igncom1 would together start to make mod.

Probably cthulhu would rise from grave just because it would completly break this world. (other option is that I would become project leader and it would die just because I wouldn't find enough challenge :P)

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 7:02:41 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
huh....a module that gives a system industry?

Could you also make a affinity for such a thing, giving every ships this benefit? (That would make for the idea of a nomadic empire possible, making your best world where every your fleet is.)

See, this is why we need to work together! It is possible I think. (just use word trait please, it can be done via affinities but it's annoying to start to point affinities to elsewhere)

Basically it's done in same way than you do weapondamage, ship speed and so on.

0badgesSend private message

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 7:03:25 PM

My lord!

Such a mod would brake the space-time continuum!

0badgesSend private message

VIPiblise

Newcomer

VIPiblise

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 4:08:31 AM

Here is what I've been working with so far, its crude to say the least but works... Unfortunately to suppress the ClassEmpire effects, I end up suppressing the detailed info on the system tab too. It displays the boost in the system tab, but not where it comes from. Any help cleaning this ugly code up would be awesome.

[CODE]

[/CODE]

For whatever reason Path="../AffinityTerran/ClassStarSystem" is the only way to get it to enable module FIDS support but the drawback is every single system receives the bonus too... The code additionally adds the bonus to the empire and the upkeep cost, so I'm forced to remove the value directly. Very ugly, so help!

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 6:19:34 AM

iblise wrote:
Here is what I've been working with so far, its crude to say the least but works... Unfortunately to suppress the ClassEmpire effects, I end up suppressing the detailed info on the system tab too. It displays the boost in the system tab, but not where it comes from. Any help cleaning this ugly code up would be awesome.

[CODE]

[/CODE]

For whatever reason Path="../AffinityTerran/ClassStarSystem" is the only way to get it to enable module FIDS support but the drawback is every single system receives the bonus too... The code additionally adds the bonus to the empire and the upkeep cost, so I'm forced to remove the value directly. Very ugly, so help!

Aaand then couple crazy questions:

[code]

SEED MOD

A nickname for colonization craft, the role of 'seed' ships is to sow new outposts across the habitable worlds that are discovered.

[/code]

Have you tried to add following (well of course replacing SEED MOD and description with something which makes bit more sense) ?

If you mean that you don't in empire information view get detailed information... I have long time ago abandoned that view, it doesn't make any sense and is ugly. (seriously, why it can't tell clearly that traits affects to something particular makes annoying to read +1 food from perfect environment when it should be +1 food for ocean/terran/jungle planets from perfect environment)

and then to your real problems (these did sound way funnier):

I blame me, I didn't explain when you asked how those paths works and ofcourse something like this happens...

Basically when you are dealing with traits you can directly point to empire but to point to fleets and components you have to go through whole path. (well almost full path)

When you are dealing with buildings and such game thinks that you are dealing with system wide buildings so that affecting empire requires ./empire (I may be wrong in this step) to go 1 step lower.

When you are dealing with planetary improvements / ships / ship components you have to go down all the way (../empire basically means that it steps to most bottom line and then starts to go up).

Not sure whether that makes sense or whether it's even correct information but thats how I understand it. (and well, this way of thinking makes it easier to understand).

Now why that module gives bonus to EACH starsystem is that you are pointing to global function ClassStarSystem (basically same than in traits) and it basically says to game: Transfer all these bonuses to everywhere.

There are couple ways to go around this problem:

what happens if you point to ship (highest bet is in "nothing" since ship doesn't recognize Property Food or Industry... though it might accidentally create such a values)?

what happens if you add BindOnSource=true there?

and if everything else fails:

Make illusion that it works like it should :P (boy I like these going around the thing).

Of course in this case illusion would mean that you would have to forget industry and food (sadly).

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 6:43:16 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
*Rage building.....

The MOO 2 star bases never made sense to me......especially seeing as ships warp right next to their intended target.....

Grah!

Must suppress rage.....

I so miss you from commenting to my ideas in mods :/

I mean where I am without person who starts to suddenly change weapons just because new stats makes more sense (and then argues with me about correct values... boy, that was fun)

Or without person who suddenly gets wicked idea that the wider race spreads the more intelligent they become... that thing teached me a lot.

Blah, modding is too easy now, I can do any change without having to worry anything and it works on first try.

It's not anymore: "try, pray, remove 10 last changes, try again, write 8 changes, try, remove 5 changes, try"

more like: "do something, notice that it works, do something else, notice that it works" ... Wheres all the fun in it!?

0badgesSend private message

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 6:36:27 AM

Hupailija wrote:
Blah, it's annoying to be first in something.

Thats what he said

0badgesSend private message

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

CaptainPsilon

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 6:37:44 AM

Hupailija wrote:
Imagine what would happen if you, me and Igncom1 would together start to make mod.

Probably cthulhu would rise from grave just because it would completly break this world. (other option is that I would become project leader and it would die just because I wouldn't find enough challenge :P)

I predict a huge fail.

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 8:35:30 AM

CaptainPsilon wrote:
I predict a huge fail.

Hey, Compilation mod was done in that way and it wasn't failure... in quite many areas it opened modders eyes to see what is possible and taught everyone who participated to it loads of different things.

Sadly that mod went down when I met Mass Effect and well.. since it was my mod no one really was making it after that.

Thing is that Iblise is only person who have successfully suggested ideas which are interesting but completly undoable for me (it's rare when I have to say: "I can't imagine any way to do that nor even any ways to make people to think that I did that")

Igncom1 is person who decided to see how game weapons really works when all we had was .assets files and (not sure but I hope) made mod where he fixed most of the stupid parts.

Me... well I quess I don't have to say anything about me.

Together it would be somekind of force of the nature, sadly it's impossible right now. I am doing something bigger than lifetime, Iblise is implementing way to do something which serves everybody and Igncom1 well... I actually am not even sure anymore

0badgesSend private message

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 5:22:57 PM

Igncom1 is currently braking the game.

It was expected. lol

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 6:01:27 PM

Igncom1 wrote:
Igncom1 is currently braking the game.

It was expected. lol

smiley: biggrin

Funny thingy about that "breaking the game" .. my best accomplishment so far has been Breaking the game, Rebuilding the game and Managing to turn entire sections of game off... and all 3 was because of minor mistake for forgetting importance of correct lines

It's especially fun to go to battle and notice that it's solved before it has started while getting tons of error messages. Such is a power of miss spelld words

smiley: biggrin

(and reason why inventing AI codes from head is never good idea).

Good thing is that even with all my tinkering ES is still more stabile than LoP, atleast I manage to crash only once per every 3rd start in ES.

0badgesSend private message

VIPiblise

Newcomer

VIPiblise

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 6:10:08 PM

I still do not understand 100% how each of the following ClassEmpire paths differ

"ClassEmpire"

".classempire"

"..ClassEmpire"J

"/ClassEmpire"

"./ClassEmpire"

"../ClassEmpire"

"classsomething,ClassEmpire"

0badgesSend private message

davea

Newcomer

davea

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 7:42:48 PM

I suppose you meant you "do not" understand how they differ? I think we are supposed to use unix paths as the analogy. Are you familiar with that? So anything with dots, but no slash is a syntax error which may be silently ignored (your lines 2,3). A leading slash means "root of the class hierarchy" (your line 4). A leading "./" is effectively redundant (your line 5). A leading "../" means to go one level up in the class hierarchy (your line 6). I don't know what the comma means really.

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 11, 2012, 8:02:55 PM

iblise wrote:
I still do not understand 100% how each of the following ClassEmpire paths differ

"ClassEmpire"

".classempire"

"..ClassEmpire"J

"/ClassEmpire"

"./ClassEmpire"

"../ClassEmpire"

"classsomething,ClassEmpire"

Notice any folder/dir/root used here is just to make picture clearer, in reality it just means how code is written. Same for any file or such a terminology used.

ClassEmpire = ClassEmpire

it doesn't use .Class but if it would it would be same than ./classempire

..ClassEmpire same here, I need to see example to say what this really does

/ClassEmpire go to ClassEmpire and look information / store information there (notice in this particular case there is ClassEmpire "file" (again just to think it easier, not really file but well..) in this particular folder/dir/root)

./ClassEmpire go one folder/dir/root lower and then look information / store information to ClassEmpire

../ClassEmpire go all the way down and then look information / store information ClassEmpire

"classsomething,ClassEmpire" in "file" ClassSomething try to find ClassEmpire and then look information / store information there

notice there is difference between ./classSomething/ and ./Classsomething in first case it points to particular "dir/root/folder" and in later case it points to "file" in main directory

This can still be bit confusing but this is how I have noticed that it goes.

Again any speach about dirs,folders,roots and files should be taken only as a way to imagine thing and not how it really works.

Example:

[code]

ClassEmpire

ClassStarSystem

ClassFleet

Classwhatever

ClassStarSystem

ClassFleet

Classwhatever

ClassPlanet ,

ClassFleet

ClassShip

Classshipmodule

[/code]

If you would be in "folder" Classshipmodule (which is under ClassFleet and then ClassShip (this is not how it really goes)) and would want to edit value Classplanet,

your path would be path=".. (need to go all the way down)/ClassEmpire (first step, we go to Class Empire)/ClassStarSystem (inside of ClassEmpire we go to ClassStarSystem)/ClassPlanet (in ClassStarsystem we look for ClassPlanet),I'm mr lavaplanet (and there we try to find value I'm mr lavaplanet"

Hope this made it bit more clear

again if you have examples of: .ClassEmpire and ..ClassEmpire I'm ready to translate those.

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 13, 2012, 3:10:07 PM

This is taken directly from code (PlanetDecriptor.xml) then:

0badgesSend private message

Tiggy

Newcomer

Tiggy

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 11:52:43 AM

heres another quick question, should starbases be limited to 1 per system?

0badgesSend private message

Telpar29

Newcomer

Telpar29

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2012, 1:55:26 PM

These are good questions, thank you Daeva.

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2012, 2:45:15 PM

just out of curiousness, has anyone who has been doing starbase tried to make engine slot component which has:

in it?

It could be given some nice health / defence / offence boosts too, just to pretend that starbases has better stats.

Wouldn't even have to build completly new ship then.

Almost only problem would be that AI with all it's smartness would probably but component to colonization ships.

0badgesSend private message

VIPiblise

Newcomer

VIPiblise

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2012, 4:00:21 PM

Actually what I've done is simply cranked the two movement field values to -999 on the ship hull and that ship does not move outside of wormholes and I have an idea on how to adjust that. The first move field is the basic movement, the second field refers to warp.

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2012, 5:27:49 PM

one could try setting this to 0 for a ship

TargetProperty="FleetWormholeUnlock"

not sure though what would happen, basically this is set to 1 for empire when you research correct techonology.

Setting it to 0 most likely don't do anything, of course there is also chance that it works... but it's equal to it crashing everything.

notice that there is also TargetProperty="FleetWormhole2Unlock"

0badgesSend private message

VIPiblise

Newcomer

VIPiblise

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2012, 6:17:59 PM

^^ Basically what I'll be trying out tonight when I get home

0badgesSend private message

VIPiblise

Newcomer

VIPiblise

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 28, 2012, 12:33:16 AM

Works Perfectly - Prevents almost all movement

[CODE]

[/CODE]

Trouble is still with wormholes - I tried

[CODE]

[/CODE]

but the ship still transits wormholes, any ideas?

0badgesSend private message

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Jul 28, 2012, 12:42:57 AM

Make it a wormhole starbase? lol

0badgesSend private message

VIPiblise

Newcomer

VIPiblise

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 28, 2012, 1:15:24 AM

Basically ClassEmpire seems to overwrite any ClassShip / ClassFleet. I tried changing wormholes modifier to ship and class but that just broke wormholes completely.

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Jul 28, 2012, 10:01:51 AM

iblise wrote:
Basically ClassEmpire seems to overwrite any ClassShip / ClassFleet. I tried changing wormholes modifier to ship and class but that just broke wormholes completely.

Was afraid of this, I also am bit afraid that it has nothing to do with what that Path is.

I was hoping that loadorder for ship bonuses is:

Ship

Other modifiers

Components

But it seems that compontents are count before other bonuses. (makes sense since there is Percent values on some bonuses).

Last possible option is to make invisible Trait (or non set bonus) and let all components/ships has that but it just gets too messy and ugly.

Sadly it seems that we can't deny ships travel via wormholes (easily) without being able to edit order of which these variables are loaded and thats hardcoded.

Of course one could before that make galaxies without single wormhole (I haven't looked galaxy generator but I'm fairly sure that thats possible) but that once again is just temporary solution and renders couple techonologies completly useless.

0badgesSend private message

davea

Newcomer

davea

Newcomer

12 years ago

Jul 25, 2012, 1:18:33 PM

Many people have requested starbases, stationary units which carry ship weapons and can prevent blockades and pirates. This thread contains some questions about how to make them.

On another thread there is a question about how to make a ship unit with movement 0. Changing the movement to zero is easy. However, *keeping* it at zero turns out to be hard. How can we prevent the game from allowing the starbase to move with:

* Advanced engines mounted in the starbase

* Fleet engines in other ships

* "Warp" or free movement (which uses a different movement rating)

* Hero abilities

* Random events (there is a +movement event)

* Others we haven't thought of?

Also, it is likely we cannot mod these things yet, but what else should we consider?

* Starbase will "warp in" at start of tactical combat

* Starbase will move in fleet formation with other ships during tactical combat

* Cannot yet add new graphics for any ship

* Others we haven't thought of?

0badgesSend private message

IbiEvacua

Newcomer

IbiEvacua

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 12:34:57 PM

stacking them could make turtle'ing much more viable, maybe even too viable. if they have substantial bonuses, they need to have commensurate costs as well.

Maybe some exponential function to model cost per each starbase? that way the first one would be easy, for pirate defense and stray ships, but chokepoints and key systems would be worth the heavy investment to bring two or three starbases to bear.

0badgesSend private message

Evil4Zerggin

Newcomer

Evil4Zerggin

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 5:03:25 PM

Maybe remove all of the empire wormhole effects and tie them to engines instead?

0badgesSend private message

seanw3

Newcomer

seanw3

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 5:12:15 PM

Sins made a special ship that can destroy starbases efficiently. We could make starbases strong to normal defenses, but weak to a new weapon type.

0badgesSend private message

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 5:45:11 PM

Considering their type, I would go for kinetics.

0badgesSend private message

IbiEvacua

Newcomer

IbiEvacua

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 5:57:25 PM

oxcart fallacy, why fix what doesn't need a specific counter? do we really need another element to the already rock-paper-scissor mechanics?

how would you be proposing to extrapolate kinetic weaponry? upscaling massively, perhaps?

0badgesSend private message

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 6:05:28 PM

Well the general idea is that the star-base is a large, not really moving unit.

Giving it a natural weakness in its deflectors should do the trick.

0badgesSend private message

seanw3

Newcomer

seanw3

Newcomer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 6:16:21 PM

Anyone try to add a new weapon type yet?

0badgesSend private message

Hupailija

Timer

Hupailija

Timer

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 6:28:41 PM

seanw3 wrote:
Sins made a special ship that can destroy starbases efficiently. We could make starbases strong to normal defenses, but weak to a new weapon type.

There is difference between Sins and ES starbases (for one ES doesn't have starbases but lets ignore minor details :P) ...

In Sins you have multiupgradeble starbases which can easily beat any enemy fleet alone and with support any capital ship.

One could argue that starbase with 50 weapons and similar amount of defence in ES could be better than starbase in Sins (now that would be match of day) but even that starbase in ES would be beatable with missileship armies.

(notice missile hits after ship has destroyed)

Anyway (oh, I am going to so make Igncom1 angry again) if something starbase should be from Master of Orion 2, where it was deadly until you overteched, over fleeted or just overovered (what? You are saying that warping, cloaking, capitalship with best weapons is powerful... njaah, you haven't seen endless dream capital ships yet :P) it.

0badgesSend private message

Igncom1

Craver

Infantry win firefights. Tanks win battles. Artillery win wars.

Igncom1

Craver

12 years ago

Aug 10, 2012, 6:32:54 PM

*Rage building.....

The MOO 2 star bases never made sense to me......especially seeing as ships warp right next to their intended target.....

Grah!

Must suppress rage.....

0badgesSend private message

?

Click here to login

Reply

Comment

Characters : 0

0badgesSend private message

PostCancel