The problem of running out of memory due to a huge number of ships is well known. Apparently all the information about the ship is stored for each instance, instead of keeping it only on the template. I suppose the AI has a "threat level before buying out ships", which you exceeded. Then it bought all its ships; resulting in a huge memory increase; resulting in huge load time and risk of running out of memory.



I highly recommend to try *eliminating* the AI buyout bonus. This appears to be where people *see* the AI cheating, buying 500 ships the player could never afford.

Since I'll probably not do too much with the game in the near future (mainly because the lack of an automerge-function for fleets annoys me beyond a point where I can enjoy it), I decided to put up what I've started before and finished just now.

Ail wrote:
(mainly because the lack of an automerge-function for fleets annoys me beyond a point where I can enjoy it).

What does "auto-merge" mean in this context? Do you mean rally points? Or are you still seeing AI fleet spam?

Auto merging ships? There would be issues regarding ship class that would almost requre user created filters.

Ctrl clicking the desired ships you wish to put into the fleet and hitting merge is probably the best it's getting :/

Yes, something like Rally-Points.

A way to form fleets from your 600 Command-Points without having to click them together manually.

The AI can do it since 1.0.14. There already is a button to merge fleets but it will only work if the fleets you have selected have <= your max-command-points.

If you don't select anything it should just run the routine that the AI uses to merge their fleets.

Same goes for the Launch button. If you don't select ships manually it should just make fleets automatically.



I think that should be programmable in less than an hour because every method and UI-element already exists. They just need to be brought together.

I guess there are two threads discussing this in the proposals section. I think any rule the game had, would annoy many players with a different rule in mind. Then they would spend more time un-merging and re-merging. Personally, I set each forge planet to build one complete fleet the way I want, and then when it's done I go use it.

I think that any rule is better than no rule at all.

Also in war-times it's not a big problem because then I will launch my fleets regularly.

Problem is longer periods of peace. I will have dozens of ships from different generations and fleet-cap might have changed in the meantime aswell.



I want them simply to leave the hangars with one click and merhe to fleets trying for the fleet-cap if possible.

Ail wrote:
I want them simply to leave the hangars with one click and merhe to fleets trying for the fleet-cap if possible.

So this is a button, on the hangar, which says "merge into orbiting fleets". And when you click it, any random ship merges into any random fleet where it fits, and any random ships left over from the hangar are put into new fleet(s) randomly. Is that sufficient? Or do you need rules of which ship goes into which fleet so you don't have to reorganize them later?

I don't need rules... just the same thing the AI does when it merges fleets would be sufficient. If I wanted special fleets with ships for specific roles than it's okay to manually build them but just to get out all the crap I've built wouldn't require any complicated stuff.

Uploaded a 1.3 ... had pretty bad things happening. The Ai kept making ships during peace-time and at one point it declared war (while having 300+ 22/22 fleets).

During the 2nd turn of the war the game locked up in the transition between turns while constantly allocating more memory. Then it crashed with the "too many heaps" (or so) error after a few minutes and reaching roundabout 1.7 GB Ram-usage.



I don't think the error is directly related to the mod but the game maybe has a problem when it comes to moving around such vast amounts of fleets.

Have you reached the point where decreasing the AI FIDS/buyout bonus makes sense? If the AI is getting better, we should be able to reduce these and still have expert players find it challenging. This will reduce the ship count.

This may become reasonable soon.

I think the ridiculous buyout-bonus shall go/be reduced first.



The problem is not the AI's planet-development or economy anymore. (It actually was not that bad to begin with)

It's mostly about military and ships and to some extent diplomacy.



But what I consider more important is the analysis of the bug I ran into with the latest version of my mod.



It looked like it was related to the many ships the AI built but some things did not make sense in this regard.



It was at turn 330 or so. I had found out how to let them make more ships at around turn 290. So they already "spammed fleets" since 40 turns. They did never buyout them though.



Then at turn 330 the AI declared war on me and attacked some fleets and a system of mine. Most of their fleets were still hovering around their gather-systems. But I saw a massive movement of fleets in their backyard on the way to the front.



I was eager to analyze their attacking behaviour.



But then the game went into a deadlock "Turn is being progressed" for like 5 minutes while the memory-usage of the game constantly rose. At the end it crashed with a heap-overflow-error.



What I consider a possibility is that due to declaring war, they might have decided to buyout ships in addition to all the ones they already produced (I think it was 300-400 fleets of 22 CP at that point). And maybe the progress of buying out is buggy.



Or it has something to do with their attack-algorithm. Maybe the problem occured when they decided to assign targets.



The last theory is that it has to with autosaving between turns. I noticed that the increased amount of ships made loading-times go up a lot. So maybe saving times are similarly affected. But then it would not have happened so suddenly.



So the connection with something that only happens during war seems more likely.

Yeah, that's what happened all the time in 1.2 but should not in 1.2.1 because it would ...

Ok, I know what it is.

It is the race afterall.



Amoeba have affinity for:

Food: 1.0

Dust: 1.2

Horatio have:

Food: 1.4

Dust: 1.0



So that's why in my case they just sticked to food but in your case they wanted to switch and then realized: "nope"

So while I know how to fix it, I'm wondering if I shall not simply use the old solution that would just make food till max-pop. It's so much easier and I consider the benefits of the current solution, even without the cycling as really marginal.



Ok, I changed it as following:



Food: Whenever it wants to but not when the Maxpop is reached.

Industry: Whenever it wants to but not on Planets where it has a Bonus to Science and Money.

Money: Only on Planets with a Bonus for Money.

Science: Only on Planets with a Bonus for Science.

Note that I differentiate between the levels. Which means for Level 1 only Arid has a Bonus for Money and only Barren has a Bonus for Science! So it should make food or Industry on all other types.

Now I just need to test it... This time I take the Amoeba.

I agree on eliminating the ridiculous buyout-bonus. With my "fix" that allows the AI to normally build more ships they will have a lot of ships as well but they don't pop out of nowhere and thus don't seem like a cheat.

At endless they can buyout 10 times as much as you can with the same amount of dust while having more dust in the first place. Also making ind=>dust and using that to buy ships actually is more ind-efficient for them than actually building the ships... I really agree that this has to go.



I don't think that the mere fact of them having all these ships caused the issue.

Loading times got longer, yes. Turn times got longer as well.

Both of that is understandable but it was not a big issue.



But when the crash happened it was not like the turns before. Before it maybe took 10 seconds to process the end of a turn. At a time where the AI already had all those 400 fleets.



Considering it took roundabout 5 minutes of "Turn is in progress" before the game was shut down, that would mean more than 30 times that amount of fleets. And even with their 3.5 M and high buyout-boni I don't see the how they have bought 60,000 ships.



The bug looks like an endless (or almost endless) loop where it allocates memory for something. So existing ships cannot really be the problem because the memory they use already must've been allocated before.



Unfortunately I cannot find out whats going on by jailbreaking since obviously whatever they do that causes the problem won't happen when I take them over.



So I suspect the routine where the AI does buyout. But I have no evidence. Just a theory.



Also for the savegames I'm pretty sure that not each instance of a ship is stored there because I've not seen them grow in a noticable manner during the buildup of the ships. But how it is saved in the save-files and how the game actually handles it can certainly differ a lot.



I don't know if the devs know what "Coverity" is. It is an extremely powerful code-analyser. It takes a lot of time to process code but it will find memory leaks and other stuff like that.



I'd like to know if something like that was used on the ES-Code. Because it would drastically limit the likelyness of memory-leaks.

I know coverity well. I am not sure what they described is a "leak" as much as inefficient design. There is "a little" information mixed in with random commentary here:



http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/showthread.php?5500-Optimizations-status&highlight=status

Did you have the save game? I am interested in this kind of "Out of memory" which seams related to something defined...

Did I need the mod to make the game crash?



For the memory analysis tools, we try some other ones. Coverity seams more "Java" to me, but I can miss read their website...

But the problem is that our game is based on Unity and we don't have access to their code base. And as our code is in C# then compiled by Unity in Mono and run in their "C++" application, I don't know how we can bind a tool to this and which kind of tool...



So, for now, all analyzes have been made by our self, trying to count each object or found some "too long loading time" and see where we are breaking in...

If you have any insight on tools that can be usable in our case, be my guest to send me them ^^.

Unfortunately I'm not at home right now and won't get there till sunday. So I will upload a savegame on sunday or so.

I also don't know if the Mod is "needed" to reproduce the issue.

I tend to believe it is not. But I cannot be sure about it without testing it without the Mod.

This thread is related:

http://forums.amplitude-studios.com/showthread.php?10011-Possible-issue-with-AI-Dust-expenditure&highlight=100k

To reproduce, probably, jailbreak a save game where an AI is under severe attack, find the AI dust treasury value, change it to 2 million.

I've experimented around some more with that.



When I jailbroke the savegame and joined the game as the orange Horatio all the Dust was already spent. However, I could not find the enormous amount of fleets that should have been brought into existance by that.

My calculations said they should have made at least 700 new full 22/22 fleets from spending all their dust. But they "only" had the 340 fleets that they had built during the last few decades. 10 turns before they already had 285 fleets and still had all their dust.

The crash also never occured on the next-turn directly after loading. It was always after 2 turns. I guess because they would not buyout in the current turn when you load but the one after that.

However I noticed that the system "Tekal" had an unusually large amound of fleets in the hanger. 24. Not really a whole lot but considering no other system had that many their was something fishy.

So I tried to look at the system and... voilá the game crashed when I tried to do so.

I loaded again and found I can enter any other system. Only "Tekal" causes the hang-up.

In the savegame before their dust expenditure I can enter the system no problem.



I also tried to see what would happen if I spend all their dust myself. But guess what: Clicking a ship 1500 times and the buy-icon again 1500 more times kinda exhausted my patience so I stopped after 400 or so.



So BeforeCrash.zip contains the savegame from before the crash. I am the Red Sophon. The 2nd time you press enter after loading shall crash.

Crash.zip is after they spent their cash. It will also crash two turns after loading. OR it will crash when you play as the orange Horatio and try to enter the system "Tekal".



Edit:

I now gathered all fleets of the Horatio in 1 system and clicked on "Disband" so they go to the hangar.

This caused the Heap-Error-Crash after a few seconds. So obviously the amount of Ships in a hangar are limited and exceeding it will crash the game in any case.
BeforeCrash.zip
Crash.zip

Just a first report on my tests so far.



I don't get a crash when I just hit the enter key. Even when I keep doing it for 5 or 10 turns. It take some time to process each turn (which can be really huge, damned AI ^^) and much more time to load the save, but it works... at least on my PC.



But as you notice, when you click on the "Tekal" system, I also get a crash which is preceded by a long long wait...



I reduce the wait (a sorting process which was called a little too much...) but I still get the crash...



I fact, the AI has queued 22558 ship in his construction queue... which... cannot be all instantiate at the same time by Unity... so... we have to re-write our code to avoid the instantiation of all queued items when we draw the system queue panel.

This will take some time to be achieved and I don't think this will take a high priority because I am sure nobody will click 22000 times on the same button... and even if he did... well... I don't care if it crash ^^

But still, it's a bug and not a "difficult" one to solve so... it will be done, but not tomorrow ^^



All in all, I don't think this is the problem for the most important crash you report first. So I will continue to investigate around it just to see what can be so long to be done that it seams to appear as a infinite loop.

Although I feel bad about any crash bug, I think there may be other places to work first. I am not sure many users will hit the situation of having 22,000 ships. Let us make the AI play better, and turn down the buyout bonus so that these ships are more expensive.

Yeap, that's also my thoughs... But I need to try with the hangar stuff... If we are limiting the number of ship in the hangar to something less than 200 or perhaps 500 it can be messy...

I will report it and the priority will be done by some higher instances... but not for tomorrow work list...

If it does not crash without clicking on the system, then the other crash might be resulting from something I changed within my mod.

I've tried several things to make the AI build ships. The thing that actually worked was increasing . Perhaps one of my other changes has to do with the other crash. Or maybe also my changes to their diplomatic behaviour play a role.



What happened in the 5-10 turns? Did they actually attack you or have they been idle with their fleets? If they have been idle, then I guess you can guess what I think needs improvement.

iblise wrote:
I'm planning to try another game see what happens with governors, regarding careful sweeping though I must confess confusion - Far as I can tell its simply +2 dust per explored moon with 3 dust per turn upkeep, is it not?



When are you releasing the new update?

The tooltip of Carefull Sweeping and the Moon-Tractor-Thingy is bugged somehow but in both cases the benefits are for the people on the planet of the moon, not the individual moon.



Maybe in an hour or so. Haven't changed a lot but the cycling-issue was pretty big and this is fixed now.

Hi,



First of all thank you for work on this very important aspect of game, I believe that AI is the most important thing to mod/change, at least for players like me who prefer single player games.



I have question, is this mod content already added to the community-mod by davea, or this is a new version of AI improvements and needs to be added separately?



Also is there possibility to have something like loading mod order? I know about adding +mod parameter in steam, but if I add two mods which change same parameters, which one will be in effect?

Parts of this already are in the Community Mod, others aren't.

davea will pick what of this he is going to include into the community-mod and what not. For example the increased agressiveness of all the AIs might not be to everyone's liking.

Also I think he will not include the workarounds for stuff that Amplitude is gonna fix anyways.



At the end it will be a matter of taste.

The modders that are not making a total-conversion mix the results of others together to create different blends that combine different features that they personally like or don't.

Since nothing of this stuff is copyrighted everyone can mix the features/changes that he likes most for himself.

At first I wanted to make a pure AI-Mod but some ideas of others are just too good to neglect. ^^



About your other question: I'd like to know that for myself. I will investigate because since the colors-mod does not work in the main-directory but only in mods I need a way to launch the way with a specific mod aswell.



Edit: @adamkow: +mod YourModDirectoryName is how you keep a mod loaded.

AI-Players are generally harder to befriend and will be more aggressive towards as well to the player and eachother.

This tends to make the A.I weaker.The A.I tends to be better when it concentrates war on a single empire and not several at once.

Ashbery76 wrote:
This tends to make the A.I weaker.The A.I tends to be better when it concentrates war on a single empire and not several at once.

That is why I drastically increased the amount of repuatation for sharing the same enemy.

Basically it will tend to make the AIs to gang up on someone but in the meanwhile try to keep at good terms with others.

So this shall not weaken them too much... as long as they are not the poor empire being ganged up on, that is.

Also I think the AIs, even without modding, are trying to prevent multiple wars at once anyways.



However, I'll just play a game now to see how it works out. In my 1st half game with the partially finished mod, the UE declared war on me but did not mount up a whole lot of forces after their initial attack. When I jailbroke the savegame to see why they were so weak it turned out that they had the pilgrims were already invading several of their systems from the other side.

When I met the Pilgrims they liked me a lot because we shared a common enemy.



The main reason for that change was because some of the people who won on endless told that they never declared war on by some of the factions even if they did not have anything to defend themselfes. This mainly was happening if you start near a Sophon/Pilgrim/Amoeba. So by selecting only those races you could almost count on a peaceful game.



Edit: Great... 4 turns in and already found a bug. -_-



Edit: Edited the start-post.



Edit2: Edited the start-post again. In order to make the changes actually do what they should one needs to overwrite the original game-files. Otherwise it just won't work properly. This has huge advantages anyways for example you can play your existing save-games with the mod.



Edit3:

Now to bugs within the actual Mod:



1. When the AI switches from a food exploit to a non-food exploit it often will realize that it does not have enough food anymore and will switch back to the food exploit. When it has done that it will realize that it has more than enough food and will switch to something else. This can turn into a cycle of switching back and forth.

Ail wrote:
In order to make the changes actually do what they should one needs to overwrite the original game-files. Otherwise it just won't work properly. This has huge advantages anyways for example you can play your existing save-games with the mod.

I am disappointed. This problem needs to be fixed in the game (not the fault of the modders)! If people start copying over their original game files, any number of things will go wrong. An official game update may be released at any time, which will destroy your files. People may start with one mod, continue with a different one, and get weird results. The best result in this case is actually a crash, continuing with some random data is much more painful in the long run.

Ali, would



IsPermanent : Keep the last turn value and add the new value -->



be of any help to avoid that loop cycle? I suspect you've already considered this if it is even applicable to your method of value adjustment... or maybe, damn it trigger events still aren't moddable, I was going to suggest if food improvement is active then substract food improvement values before calcing :S



One other thing, is there a way that I could help you test and confirm that there is indeed a bug and the only way to make it work is by overwriting the master files, you've said before that you have issues running mods, maybe this is a problem on your end? Would be easy to confirm if you just tell me how to test for it.

iblise wrote:
Would be easy to confirm if you just tell me how to test for it.

Some help for this would be great. The problem is that if there is something unusual/wrong with the mod, the game will ignore it and either use the original game file, or no file at all. It may also possibly ignore other files from the mod and other original game files. There are no messages to indicate this; the only way to tell is to observe that the game's behavior is not matching the mod behavior. It may also not match the original game behavior, such as refusing to build any ships larger than destroyer.

Yup, I just poke the the system governors with a large stick and watched them for about 30-50 turns once with the mod and once without. There is definately differences, with the mod they wanted to spam build dust improvements and exploits. Overwriting the files produced more acceptable behavior with food exploits.



Bugs so far with overwriting method(could be game or the modded code, not sure):



Assigning a system governor to balanced on the same turn the colony is created results in nothing happening until the population updates in 5 turns or whatever. Setting it to balanced on the turn after produces normal behavior.



Ignored the 2nd planet on my home system, refused to give it an exploit for about 20+ turns, no idea why, no problem elsewhere.



Built careful sweeping on a system that only had 1 moon



Ignored building exploits in favor of improvements fairly regular



Not a bug per say, but tried to spam colonize an ocean planet immediately after 2nd pop generated on the terran planet I settled despite the fact that the ocean had acid rain with a -20 approval rating. I overrode that one for about 10 turns or so, then finally let it colonize the planet as all it did was spam that ability.

iblise wrote:
Ali, would



IsPermanent : Keep the last turn value and add the new value -->



be of any help to avoid that loop cycle?

I found another way to avoid the loop-cycle. But I've to test if it has other disadvantages.

iblise wrote:


Bugs so far with overwriting method(could be game or the modded code, not sure):



Assigning a system governor to balanced on the same turn the colony is created results in nothing happening until the population updates in 5 turns or whatever. Setting it to balanced on the turn after produces normal behavior.

Had seen that when I did NOT use the overwriting method.



Ignored the 2nd planet on my home system, refused to give it an exploit for about 20+ turns, no idea why, no problem elsewhere.

What type was the planet? Maybe I have overlooked a possibility that can cause the check for all types of Exploitation to fail. The thing that I did to fix the loop-cycle will probably fix it aswell because it made food-exploits not require to fulfill the food-improvement-circumstance of my formula so it can be built and kept when the check for the other buildings fail.





Built careful sweeping on a system that only had 1 moon

What is the problem with that. Careful sweeping generates Dust*Pop on the Planets with moons*taxrate/50. I plan to calculate the exact benefit using the taxrate. But I haven't done this yet.



Ignored building exploits in favor of improvements fairly regular

I assigned a value of 3 to some of the super-effective buildings like Industry1 and Science2.

Exploits have a value of 2.1-2.3. So it is pretty normal that they come after those 2 buildings on newly colonized Systems.

I reduced the value of Industry2 from 2.3 to 2 because I did not like the AI to rush it so early but also did not like to have it require 50 Industry like davea did.



Not a bug per say, but tried to spam colonize an ocean planet immediately after 2nd pop generated on the terran planet I settled despite the fact that the ocean had acid rain with a -20 approval rating. I overrode that one for about 10 turns or so, then finally let it colonize the planet as all it did was spam that ability.

This again sounds like something where the Mod does not apply. And also I have not observed any behaviour like that.

$(ClassStarSystem:Population) ge $(ClassStarSystem:AlmostMaxPop) should prevent that from happening. (AlmostMaxPop being MaxSystemPopulation-1)

Here's some results from my test with a little more up-to-date-version that shall prevent the cycling.



Food-Exploits now behave almost similar to when it was forced to use them.

On the other hand the AI in that case almost always spares itself from making any other food-improvements. This works exactly like I intended it.

I had one case were the governor would not build anything at all. I have no clue why that is. I manually overrode it and once the manually ordered buildings were finished, the governor took over.

I had one case were the governor wanted to build Ind->Dust on a new planet. That planet had only 1 production so I think it might be somewhat resonable.

There needs to be a smart solution for Trade-Buildings.... Or more precisely it is smart for all but the first. An empire-wide trade-count needs to be put in charge and only when there are no more free trade-routes it shall build those.

Other than that it looked very fine and behaved almost exactly as I would myself.



Also interesting was the AI-agressiveness. They wanted a lot of stuff from me just to go to peace with them. And in case of my direct neigbour (Hissho) it seemed impossible to prevent war.



On the other hand I outexpanded them despite using the governor for building selection. I think they invest too much in early ships to prevent rushes. But then again I was playing on "Normal". I'm at turn 83 right now and will continue the session later.

I'm planning to try another game see what happens with governors, regarding careful sweeping though I must confess confusion - Far as I can tell its simply +2 dust per explored moon with 3 dust per turn upkeep, is it not?



When are you releasing the new update?

IMPORTANT:



Do not install it like you should do with a mod. It will bug around!

Supposedly the whole "make the AI smarter about picking what to build"-part will not work.

Just copy the files over your "Endless Space\Public"-Folder. I recommend that for any mod because even if some parts of the mod work and everything looks fine, some other parts won't.

Of course don't forget to make a backup of the original files.

To get the Color-Changes working copy the contents of coloredanomalies.xml to the end of Localization_Locales.xml.



I'm really sorry for all that trouble. But I just could not get the Mod to work properly as long as I had it as a mod. Only replacing the original Game files achieved the desired effects.



Gameplay-Changes:



Because of a Bug that prevented the AI from using tonnage-boni gained by technologies the tonnage-boni were replaced by hitpoint-boni.

Delete the file EmpireDesctiptor.xml within the Mod-Folder if you do not want this debatable change.

Because the AI lacks the ability to retreat from battle, I felt the player should not have that big of an advantage in that and removed the Retreat- and Offensive-Retreat Battle-Cards.

Delete the file BattleCard.xml within the Mod-Folder if you do not want this debatable change.

Both of these changes will of course be reverted as soon as Amplitude fixes the tonnage-bug and implements retreating for the AI.



AI-Changes:



AI-Players are generally harder to befriend and will be more aggressive towards as well to the player and eachother.

AI-Players will design way better ships inspired by the way players design their ships and trying to avoid weaknesses.

AI-Players know way better how to handle their improvements and exploitations. They will avoid improvements they do not benefit from and will priorize better.

Especially their food-management has been vastly improved in a way to reduce overproduction without losing a lot of growth. Sowers were taken into consideration here as well and will shun Food-Exploits.

AI-Players will use and train their heros as fleet-heros to further increase the power of their fleets.



Miscellaneous:



Added an extended version of Luminalities "Colored Anomalies". This is purely optical and helps to evaluate planets faster without the need to hover over everything first. Details can be found here: https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/37-modding/thread/16338-released-colored-anomalies



1.2.1 Update:

Fixes an issue that caused cycling between food- exploit and other exploits.

Included the Localization-File (only english) with the Color-Changes because those won't work with the "copy over the original game-files"-method.



1.2.3 Update:

Fixes an issue that caused cycling between food- exploit and other exploits. This time for real.

Prevented AI from building Adaptive Industrial System before Supercities were built.

Changed the Tooltips for Improvements that work per population on planets with explored moons to reflect that they work per population on planets with explored moons.



1.3.0 Update:

Allowed the AI to build ships now all the time instead of Industry to Dust.

Further experiemented with Diplomatic behaviour. (might not show good results yet)

Tried to fix an issue where the AI would use subpar armor-modules instead of the best ones. (I doubt it worked though)

Hi Ail! Thanks for the cool mod. It seems to make the AI somewhat better which is a nice change. I haven't found any issues yet (½ way through first game).

1.2.1 is uploaded. Very minor changes but it felt bad to leave the cycling-thing in.

Actually the cycle thing seems worse now, I was having repeated issues of governors building food exploits and swapping to dust either the next turn or within the next 3-5 turns a lot...



Regarding Careful Sweeping - I'm rather confused now



[code][/code]



That looks like its +2 dust per explored moon - how does population figure into that?

I gave 1.2.1 a try, by copying it into my game install directory. I played 60 turns (using hissho evasion cards!) and looked at the AI positions. For the first time, I think there wasn't a single thing which was "glaringly wrong" with their exploits or build order. There are some things I might have done differently, but nothing major. The biggest thing I see now for the AI economy is one we have tried/failed to fix, which is specialization of heroes, especially the "admin-hopping" tactic we all use. Your mod currently makes all fleet skills. But, there is nothing modders can do better on this. And it seems your fleet design is much better, but still I hope the dev team will just fix the AI tonnage allocation bug rather than modders trying clever workarounds.



Your system improvements look great! Good job.

iblise wrote:
Actually the cycle thing seems worse now, I was having repeated issues of governors building food exploits and swapping to dust either the next turn or within the next 3-5 turns a lot...



Regarding Careful Sweeping - I'm rather confused now



[code][/code]



That looks like its +2 dust per explored moon - how does population figure into that?

I counter your argument with the Descripor of StarSystemImprovementMoney4:

[code][/code]

That looks like its +2 dust per planet - how does population figure into that?



Really, just try it out by razing a "Careful Sweeping" in an advanced game with a high-pop-system. It has a lot of impact.

I mean if it really would do, what the bugged tooltip suggests, it would be complete and utter crap and never ever worthwhile!



About the cycling getting worse. What race did you play with, did you use another but the Balanced-Governor and what Level did the exploits have? In my game it now has just sticked to Food for the most part but not completely like it did when "food till max" was doctrinated.



Edit: I've found another issue and I don't think it's caused by the mod because I think I've seen that before:

The AI seems to refuse to explore more than one moon per system, which, for instance, drastically reduces the use of the much debated "Carefull Sweeping". (Has anyone read the discrtiption of that building and sees any logical connection to moons? oO)

There is no AIPathRequirement for exploring moons and it has a relatively high value in AIParametersBuilding. The first Moon-Exploration reflects that but there's no second to come. Seems like a bug.

Ail wrote:




Edit: I've found another issue and I don't think it's caused by the mod because I think I've seen that before:

The AI seems to refuse to explore more than one moon per system, which, for instance, drastically reduces the use of the much debated "Carefull Sweeping". (Has anyone read the discrtiption of that building and sees any logical connection to moons? oO)

There is no AIPathRequirement for exploring moons and it has a relatively high value in AIParametersBuilding. The first Moon-Exploration reflects that but there's no second to come. Seems like a bug.

I've actually seen this too, and I'm not using your mod. I am currently using racial diversity mod. If the "bug" is not in the vanilla game, perhaps it is related to some change that is common between the two mods?

I'm pretty sure it is in vanilla as well.

I've news about this bug.

The AI only then explores a moon if the planet does not have an exploitation.

This can result in AI-Systems without moon-Exploration and in Systems with all moons explored. It depends on the order in wich the planets are colonized.

You got the planet early so it won't explore the moon. You got the planet when the system already has a good economy so it explores the moon before gets an Exploit on the planet.

I played amoeba and I was noticing the cycling when I hit the rank two dust exploit. Played only with balanced governors. I did restore the empire descriptor and battle cards XMLs, did you add something to the empire descriptor file that requires it from your files rather than default?



Based on my limited knowledge of ES coding and it's qwerks I would have stood behind my statement regarding the money exploits after looking at the code but you are right (again) regarding how these improvement calc the dust gain. It still doesn't make any sense when looking at the code but it's definately per pop. I assumed that it was simply a binary modifier on the other various money improvements with a right="$(Population) before I looked at them today.

iblise wrote:
I did restore the empire descriptor and battle cards XMLs, did you add something to the empire descriptor file that requires it from your files rather than default?

Nope, otherwise I would not have suggested to do so if you don't want these changes.



Strange that you still have the cycling. I mean when something happens like: A new planet is explored, a habitat was built, a planet was terraformed, then it still happens. But without a change of circumstances I'd say it's rather suprising as I cannot see this happen in my game (being Horatio).

I believe it was happening as my planets start getting close to population cap. It would change to dust and then realize it need more food to continue growing etc