Thank you Harel!



Despite what I have said previously, people following up have decided me to spend some time on the mod. An hour here and there while waiting for more availability; but it seems to work tremendously good, which shows how Amplitude have well made their modding options.





I have begun work on the Ishtal Empire.

This is one of the most original species of the Endless Dynasty Mod, and I am quite inspired about them.



It took me less than 30 minutes to set up the new faction, its traits, its new Affinity and ships (cloned from Amoeba for this beginner version) and to mention all existing technologies as forbidden to the Ishtal - so as to make my own technologies later on, based on very interesting choices and decisions.



Unfortunately, it took me another 30 minutes to figure out that I needed to create other various requirements (starting ships etc) for the game to be able to work. This is done now.

The new mod works, hence making a 0.1 version.





Preventing access to existing technologies doesn't seem to work for now, though, but I suppose I'll figure that out eventually.

I created the Ishtal Affinity, tied the new faction to it, added !$(AffinityIshtal) to all existing techs (in PathPrerequisites); but that doesn't seem like enough.

If others have explored the area, feel free to share some intel about it!





For now I'll just show a glimpse of the Isthal background...

ISHTAL EMPIRE



Diplomatic Alignment: Good

Gameplay: Single superships, Various paths to power

Main Victory Type: Economic/Military



The Sun God has awakened.

His ray blesses all of Ishtal.

His long sight has granted us the visions in the Eye Pyramid;

his cleverness has made us understand what we had to achieve;

his voice has commanded us to gather, to build, and reach all of Kar-Isht, where infidels live and multiply.



We'll make the Kar-Isht see his Light and bow to his Grandeur.

The Wisdom of the Moon God guides us;

the Power of the Sun God drives us;

the Wrath of the Fire God makes us invincible.



We are the Isthals. We are the guardians of this galaxy. The Kar-Isht will be at peace.

Next steps will see the addition of Ishtal-specific technologies.

I'll add some glimpses (three of them) of this below.



1.

Note that all Endless Dynasty factions won't have access to anything from vanilla techs; not even Food Exploitation structure, or Production Exploitation structure, nor any exploitation.

They'll have unique ships, unique techs, and unique things all along.

They won't have access to the starting battle cards (none unlocked at the beginning) and will have access to their own decks of battle cards, and if I manage it, even Heroes and character classes will be faction-specific.



2.

Ishtal-specific techs will be based on variations of a "Control Pyramid" as exploitation headquarters of any planet, and a lot of variations of beam weaponry.



3.

They'll have choice between three main weapon path, based first on the choosing of their first military hull:

The Moon Eagle, the Sun Eagle, or the Fire Eagle.



This weapon path will also unlock various colonization options; the Moon path can expand power on barren planets and moons, the Sun path on arid and desert planets, ad the Fire path on Lava planets.

I can't wait for this!



The current invasion system really deserves some kind of a rehash. A dedicated infantry pod ship would prove interesting.

Telpar29 wrote:


And to reply to your point, first about the fleet suggestion:

- I won't validate, as you may see and understand now, the fleet melee power suggestion.

......

The problem there is with your suggestion is that your invasion module is "never spent"; after conquering a planet with it, it will still be here.

Whereas it would only really work if it is spent.

I said "mele power" coz as i understand this is the way game caculating fleet impact on system and since my point was there slould be option for attack colony and damage it without conquering it doesnt matter for me how it will be calculated



and i should be more precise : . After using marines mod ship will have empty space in place of mod so that ship could be retrofit and used again as marines carrier. - this is my idea on using troop pods so we agree at this too





edit: I will be happy to see this mod

Another idea - Space battles.



I maust say i dont like current system with cards - when i have 1000 power fleet vs. 2000 power enemy i can loose without destroying any of enemy ships or win with 80 hp lost (real situation from one my games) - depend what cards i played - for me it makes no sence.



My suggestion is to make 4 or 5 battle phases instead of 3 and insted of playing cards we could activate ship systems and weapons. Each system and weapon will have its "work time" and "recharge time" .... ??? Maybe something like this ? What do you thing ?

As a reply to your post and suggestion, I must say that it is still good according to me that the cards have a real effect on the space battle outcome.

I still think, however, that battle preparation - your ships, how they are stuffed, all the research you made, etc - should play a very important part.



It is truly the case in Endless Space, but the rock/paper/scissors associated with an instant refit time and "tiers technologies" makes it odd during my games; it is easy to have all three types of defenses and weapons researched, even with being 1 tier behind in one domain, and easy to change specialization on refit. The only difficulty comes when you were really busy doing "civil" things for some time, then you easily build up military techs and value and easily refit from one type to the other. Only the "endgame" might be limited to some extent because endgame weapons are long to research. This reduces replayability somewhat. That is the reason why I want to bring some changes.





To go back to the wonderful news:

First of all, the xml files indeed allow us to create battle phases on our own and to modify the existing rules (= accuracy loss rules for example) for the weapon types we have (missiles, lasers, kinetics).

This is great and I can't help but to congratulate the wonderful devs for that.

The xml files also allow us to create, modify or remove the existing battle cards.



What I don't like in the current cards system is some sort of randomness - at times the choice is strategic, you choose from what you guess the enemy would use, but with access to so many cards right from the start, and the "bad choices" the AI can make, it truly ends up as random. I mean that my card is "randomly" countered by the enemy, or not. This is a countereffect of some bad AI choice; humans can use the same system more effectively.







Since I want to make a whole tech tree specific to each race (yes, will be a long work ), this means that I also want "levers" to make every race different.

Battle phases, Battle cards and weapon modifications are really fun to mod here.





My idea about space battle is that I might:



- Create the following phases:

Extreme range, Long range, Medium range, Close range and Melee range. Melee range will sound like "boarding range".

(note: only if testing says that gameplay is good with more phases, because having 5 cards to choose sounds like a lot, and I still have to see it working)



- Have less rounds per battle phase (3 rounds instead of four ? or phases will be too quick to choose a card here? testing will tell)

- Make weapons that will have various effects on various ranges. I won't create new weapon types (I don't know if this can be done, so I can't propose it) but I'll alter the current weapon type / range ratio, while keeping its whole spirit the same (missiles = extreme + long, lasers = long + medium, kinetics = close and melee). Right now I think lasers are too effective at long range especially with good heroes.

- As you may have guessed, having more ranges will allow me more weaponry options, like missiles (=torpedoes) which are much slower, more easily to intercept or not, and faster ones which make it easy to blow enemies at long range, or very accurate ones effective at extreme range, etc.



- Remove all current Battle cards (except some)

- Give access to some battle cards only from dedicated techs from a dedicated warfare path, and since the techs are race-specific, battle cards will be more race-specific too

- Give access to other cards only from new tactician skill trees from our heroes.



- Add "Starbase"-like ships with 0 move, since I will have removed the "fleet move bonus" effect from other modules, they'll stay at 0. (other users have exchanged about it and this is a great idea ; since I remove all vanilla techs I will also remove the vanilla "+1 fleet move" modules and have them on control, so starbases could exist ; however this might not be for 1st version of mod since a starbase model is also necessary, unless modders come to create it)

- Add "fighter"-like small ships with 0 move but who could benefit from the "fleet move bonus" of a mothership, to move with it (I speak about it but don't know if this could be done, since fighters won't behave like fighters anyway here, so this proposal might be dropped or not)





Battle cards will be more accurate, more defined, and come from more preparation.

The problem I have is that the AI might be more at a loss with such modifications, and I believe modding the AI would be too time consuming or without any result.

About this, we shall see...







Last but not least: (added from edit)

- I am studying options to add new attributes to the ships

- I would reveal what I have in mind only when I would have validated some points in modding; best about these attributes would be to wait for the "full modding options" to be released

- but I can only say as an example that I am thinking about adding "morale" to the ships. Traits, Improvements, Techs, etc might then improve military morale. Military morale would (if this can be done) have effect on various stats, and some weapons would have more morale impact on morale than others. Psionic weapons could only affect morale for instance, etc. Of course I can then think of a lot of other attributes (structure integrity, etc) and according weapon damage. But... this point really has to be valided first, no need for me to "dream about it" yet. Consider it only in the "maybe" situation for now.

What you are saying about battle cards system and how you want to change it makes a lot of sence to me , in the end it looks like your mod can be really great BUT it seems like tons of work ... since i have no idea about moding and for me it is just magic the only thing i can do is to wish you good luck :P

um is the project still going`?

good to read from a huge mod. Wish you all the luck u can get Hopefully we will see more huge mods beeing modded

Thanks for your support!

um is the project still going`?

I was waiting for Amplitude to release their "mod enabling" update.

Which has been done August 9th!

Congrats Amplitude!



I will set up the base races XMLs soon.

But since I am currently busy in many development tasks, I won't get into the following steps (the entire tech trees) before a few more weeks, I think!

Well this sounds like it's going to be great fun and the first mod I ever use instead of just goggling at.

My efforts toward ground attacks will be the following.

I'll share here some of the "Dynasty ground combat" rules.



First:

- invasion power will be removed from all base weapons (if this can be done)

- some later weapons (orbital weapons) will provide again an invasion score, but much later



But :

- some ships will be able to take the "invasion troop modules" (infantry), which will give base invasion power

- with more techs there will be various "invasion support modules" (tanks, artillery) available, which will give a percentage of increased invasion power. So you'll be forced to take also infantry with them or they will not work.

- with more techs there will be various "mixed" modules, like battle mechs and so, which give both a base invasion power and a support percentage bonus.



So you could in an early game only build the troop transports with only the infantry, and your transport could even have some other weapons and stuff.

But later in the game you'll have to build stronger invasions and will have to use the nice "percentage bonus" to make a stronger invasion score vs the planetary defenses.

Your troop transports will then be much larger, ways more dedicated, and with more massive equipement and number of varied invasion modules.





And to reply to your point, first about the fleet suggestion:

- I won't validate, as you may see and understand now, the fleet melee power suggestion.

- However orbital weapons are still scheduled ; just that I do not know yet if it is possible to apply population loss from weapons, so I don't speak about it. If this is possible, then it will be in with some weapons.



Then about the population invasion:

- it is interesting, both strategically and in every aspect, to apply a "population cost" in trade for a massive troop pod.

- but I have to mix it with the idea I had in mind



What I have in mind as a mixed solution is:

- Massive invasion pod : available early, cost 1 population point in trade of 1000 invasion power. (1000 is an example) Later tech versions may convert it to more invasion power. We can only fit 1 such module per ship.

- Infantry pod: available early, doesn't cost population point but only provides 10 invasion power + 1 percent of invasion power increase (only there to add nice bonuses to a massive pod later in the game, or this won't work).

- Tank or support pods: early versions add about 5 % of invasion power on ship per module. With 20 tank pods, you'll make your invasion power double.

- Mech or future infantry pods: provides more invasion power (like 20, 25, 50..) as well as percentage of increase (but still less than pure support pods of same tech level).



The problem there is with your suggestion is that your invasion module is "never spent"; after conquering a planet with it, it will still be here.

Whereas it would only really work if it is spent.

For now this is what really restraints me in allowing this.



If I do not feature massive invasion pods, I'll add more base invasion power to the infantry pods and future infantry pods.

Sucessfully removed access to all vanilla techs for the new 'Dynasty' Factions.

I will now get on with all other modifications.



I introduced the new space battle rules, which are applied to all existing and new factions.

This is going to be fun!







- (Factions) Added new faction: Ishtal Empire

- (Factions) New factions do not have access to vanilla techs or vanilla battle cards; vanilla factions are untouched.

- (Colors) Removed color 'Kaki' ; added new color: 'Purple'



- (Space battle) Added two battle phases: Extreme Range and Melee Range. The phases are now: Extreme Range, Long Range, Medium Range, Short Range, Melee Range.

- (Space battle) Reduced effectiveness at Long and Extreme range for beam weapons; reduced effectiveness of missiles at Medium, Short, Melee Range; reduced effectiveness of beams at Short and Melee Range.

- (Space battle) Extreme Range : Missiles 60 % accuracy ; Beam 20 % accuracy ; Kinetic 10 % accuracy.

- (Space battle) Long Range : Missiles 80 % accuracy (instead of 90) ; Beam 30 % accuracy (instead of 50) ; Kinetic 15 % accuracy (instead of 20).

- (Space battle) Medium Range : Missiles 40 % accuracy (instead of 60) ; Beam 75 % accuracy (instead of 80) ; Kinetic 30 % accuracy.

- (Space battle) Short Range : Missiles 30 % accuracy (instead of 40) ; Beam 50 % accuracy (instead of 70) ; Kinetic 60 % accuracy (instead of 90).

- (Space battle) Melee Range : Missiles 15 % accuracy ; Beam 30 % accuracy (instead of 70) ; Kinetic 80 % accuracy.



- (Space battle) Since we now have five battle phases instead of three, I set to 3 rounds per battle phase instead of 4, with phase duration reduced by about 10 % (and not 25). The reduction of rounds is made in order not to make missiles or long range weapons ways too powerful.

- (Space battle) Also added 25 % duration to the Initial Phase to allow more time to place your battle cards.





Unfortunately the game seems to allow only the three first phases as phases where we might place battle cards; meaning only Extreme, Long and Medium Ranges may receive cards.

I haven't found where to change this yet.



As an interesting side effect, this reduces the micromanagement of battles, and Short and Melee ranges are played "as is", meaning kinetic damage will be hard to prevent.

This will work since the mod will modify battle cards, removing some kind of "randomness" provided by the "rock/paper/scissor" effect, given that its hard to guess what the AI will use for instance.

Looks like you are a bit influenced by Warhammer.

I was going to say that I'm pretty sure technology prerequisites are automatically made into OR functions, so your inverse requirement wouldn't work, but it seems you have everything under control.

Looks like you are a bit influenced Warhammer.

Yes !



Inspired by, but differing from it.



The first idea behind it is that basing a mod on an existing, very live licence (quite live even in computer games) could sound as something offensive to the rightful holders of the licence, and they might request to close and not release one such mod (they have the right to, actually). Whether they'll do it or not is another question. But I didn't want to use copyrighted Warhammer background or pictures, models or elements. The developer background explains it.



The second idea is that I can't claim to know everything of the W40K background, and I prefer creating rather than pretending to know these things (and debate lengthly about it after that).

Plus, I am really enjoying creating new backgrounds and setups, even for "similar-inspired" factions ; and I love to create new factions as well. I also believe it's fun, good, and good also for players to discover new "backgrounds".



Two factions share a strong W40K inspiration: the Necris and the Eldritch.



The Eldritch have a dark elven inspiration, that might look shared with the Dark Eldar at first.

But actually they'll have another "Houses and minor Houses aspect" and a less decadent/bloody/hunting background than Dark Eldars, something more of ADD-like inspiration, that the Dark Eldar no longer seem to share much.

There will be dark sorcery techs, there will be slavery, and matriarcal background in the Eldritch, but less goth and bloody-hunting feel.



The Necris are even more reminiscent of the Necrons. I didn't even try to hide it with a "really different name".

It's possible, though, that I'll switch to a more "Terminator-like" aspect and background for the Necris, and change the name altogether, especially to give some room to the modders currently interested in creating a full licence-inspired W40K mod.

(edit : just saw your nickname - skynet - btw )



Other factions are less W40K-inspired.

The Infernals are not like Chaos, but they share a daemonic aspect.

I was going to say that I'm pretty sure technology prerequisites are automatically made into OR functions, so your inverse requirement wouldn't work, but it seems you have everything under control.

Thanks for this piece of advice!

That's true, ingame we need only one of the tech prereqs (of the branches), it's good to remember that.





As recent additions to the mod:

I implented the first Ishtal technologies!





The interesting point is that:

They must choose at the beginning which of the three Gods they serve, between the Moon God, Sun God and Fire God.

After doing this, they'll have reduced tech cost for their God related techs (-20%), and *doubled* cost for all others (+100%).



All weapon-related and some development-related technologies require a path to be chosen.

Most other technologies are related to one God or the other, but can be researched with or without this path.

The Solar Factory is an example of a Sun God related power, but which can be picked even if this is not your path.

The Moon Exploration is an example of a Moon God related power as well.



Another example :

The Solar Pyramid allows for new pyramid seeds, making colonization of desert planets possible. This is a Sun God related power.

The Lunar Pyramid allows to colonize barren planets. This is a Moon God related power.

If you had chosen the Moon God as a path, you'll have +100 % cost for the Solar Pyramid, but could still research it. You won't be "restricted" but will surely "feel" the pain of it with harder techs, though.





Some other techs (related weaponry) have dependencies from the path itself and can't be researched if you don't have the path.



But you could still choose two paths instead of one.



If you choose one path (for instance the Moon God), you'll end up with :

Cost * 0.8 for Moon God techs

Cost * 2.0 for Sun God techs

Cost * 2.0 for Fire God techs



So, if you prefer to play a game with "two paths", and if you choose the Moon God, and the Sun God after that (or the other way around), you'll end up with:

Cost * 1.6 for Moon God techs

Cost * 1.6 for Sun God techs

Cost * 4.0 for Fire God techs

... on the cost aspect, you lose rather than gain; but you increase the possibilities of your empire by using two kind of powers instead of one.

You can pretty much forget about Fire techs though.



If you later pick the Fire path as well, you may ruin your chances, since you'll have:

Cost * 3.2 for Moon God techs

Cost * 3.2 for Sun God techs

Cost * 3.2 for Fire God techs

... the loss in cost effectiveness will hinder your progress too much.





Note that the techs will be made so as to provide with many possibilities in a given path.

You *can* colonize Desert planets even with the Moon God instead of the Sun ; with more research.

You could not use Sun God related weapons, but you'll have access to Moon God related weapons which have also their unique advantages.



I still have to test what I coded ; can only dedicate one half an hour (or a bit more) daily to coding that, at the end of the evening, for the fun of modding.

I really like the scheme you've developed for 'branching' technologies instead of 'AND' dependencies. Something tells me that you may be the first of many to do technologies this way. We may have to wait for developer support (or a mathematician who's fluent in graph theory) to create really interconnected webs of tech, though.

This mod still alive?

its a interesting concept.

Madrox wrote:
This mod still alive?

its a interesting concept.

Telpar29 hasn't been online since 20 august, so I guess this is "dead" at the moment

A shame, looks indeed very interesting.

adder wrote:
Telpar29 hasn't been online since 20 august, so I guess this is "dead" at the moment

A shame, looks indeed very interesting.

Ouch, I was hoping there would be some signs of activity ._.

haha, now that I reach the end of this mod's forum only to have my 'awe' dashed against an astroid...