[RELEASED] AI-Ship-templates.

Ail

VIP

11 years ago

Jun 15, 2014, 11:39:43 PM

This mod is the result of this discussion:

https://www.games2gether.com/endless-space/forum/37-modding/thread/16219-ai-ship-templates.

Today I eventually had the nerves to redo everything and test it aswell. There might be some more tweaks needed but the majority is as I wanted it to be.

I'm not gonna spoil the AI-Ship-designs that will be used in this mod, so it is more interesting for the player to find a way to deal with them.

It should make the AI much more competetive when it comes to space-combat due to using more useful designs.

Installation-Instructions:

Unzip into (my documents)\Endless Space\Disharmony\Modding. This will create a new directory (my documents)\Endless Space\Disharmony\Modding\AISHIPS containing a file index.xml and several subdirectories.

In the main game menu, click the MODS button, find the mod "AISHIPS", select it and click load.

To keep the mod loaded: find "Endless Space" in the Steam Library, right click, select properties, and click the "set launch options" button. Add "+mod AISHIPS" to the game launch command line.

I'm quite eager to hear about peoples experiences with this mod.

v 2.0.1:

Fixed an issue with too many unnecessary retreats.

VIPInFlamesWeTrust

Officer

Do not fight the Harmony. You will be brought into our Harmony.

VIPInFlamesWeTrust

Officer

15 100g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 16, 2014, 11:15:05 AM

I don't really know my way around mods too well but is it possible to use this in conjunction with other mods or does it have to just be this one? Because so far you only seem able to load one mod at a time, even if they won't conflict with one another. Total modding noob lol

Ail

VIP

Ail

VIP

11 years ago

Jun 16, 2014, 11:40:59 AM

Well, if you find the folders of both mods and copy the contents of both of them into a new one, it should work for the most cases.

A problem would only occur if one mod changes something that another relies on or if both mods change the same areas of the same files.

If you want to merge it with the alternative galaxy-generator mod for example that should work no problem as completely different files are touched.

Both mods, however will contain an "Index.xml". It is necessary to manually touch that one and at least enter stuff like a new name for the mod.

I could also do the "Mod-blending" for you if you are not certain how to do it. Just give me a DL-link of the Mod you want it to be merged with.

Ail

VIP

Ail

VIP

11 years ago

Jun 16, 2014, 9:23:16 PM

Finished my first game with that.

I fixed an issue with too many unneccessary retreats and updated the starting-post.

The Harmony were close to a science-victory. I was the only one close enough to that aswell to bother stoping them.

But when I declared war and made very slow progress, the Horatio backstabbed me and blockaded all my major systems.

When I got my remaining fleets out of the Harmony-territory the Horatio had captured (via invasion, since in the mod the invasion-desings all use troop-pods once available) my most important systems.

Then the Automatons also joined in with war.

But it didn't take the Harmony too long to achieve victory.

The game also had 3 Craver-empires but they, as it's usual were at war with too many factions at once and all got wiped out. I got the majority of the orange cravers systems.

thuvian

Newcomer

thuvian

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jun 17, 2014, 2:28:30 PM

Congrats on getting a complete test version out.
Coincidentally, I couldn't sleep and decided to check out the forum after a long hiatus (I'm pretty much off ES).
Glad to see you ended up agreeing with most of my previous claims. (eventually)
Still not convinced engines are worth their weight and cost.
I've forgotten how the math on power unit bonuses turned out. I think I wrote up my conclusions on it in one of the combat mechanics threads.
I'd had better luck with more mono or dual defense (1 module or so of each) on some variants of the small and medium hulls. As it stands the ships I looked at are very vulnerable to the super cheap 5 LRK + destroyer hull defense.
Fighters and Bombers will suffer attrition without repair and quickly become ineffective if they have to fight against bombers.
Bomber damage is obscene, and the only effective solution is to stack armor modules and have fighter protection.
Modding Fighter and Bombers to have a fixed weight would go a long way.
It would be better to also remove the special module limitation, but the engine can't handle that. It really struggles with large fighter/bomber battles. I made a post about this one a somewhere too.
Fighters are only worthwhile to stop bombers.
Point Defense Modules were pretty worthless, but cheap and light. Fighters were a better bomber stopper.
As much as I hate the ES Combat, the post formatting BBS is nice.

Ail

VIP

Ail

VIP

11 years ago

Jun 17, 2014, 3:34:52 PM

thuvian wrote:

Glad to see you ended up agreeing with most of my previous claims. (eventually)

Yes, many of your points seemed very agreeable after actually trying them out. ^^

thuvian wrote:

Still not convinced engines are worth their weight and cost.

Afaik I only use them on scouts, one of two colony-ship-designs and hulltypes that have -75% engine-tonnage.

thuvian wrote:

I've forgotten how the math on power unit bonuses turned out. I think I wrote up my conclusions on it in one of the combat mechanics threads.

The lower ones are really cheap and i'm pretty sure they have been buffed aswell. (Weakest one now has +30% damage instead of +20%)

thuvian wrote:

I'd had better luck with more mono or dual defense (1 module or so of each) on some variants of the small and medium hulls. As it stands the ships I looked at are very vulnerable to the super cheap 5 LRK + destroyer hull defense.

That actually is my main-concern aswell. The best way to deal with glass-cannons are cheaper glass-cannons.

I'm not sure that adding defenses to small designs helps much either. They are just really inefficient due to the Hull-weakness of those.

thuvian wrote:

Bomber damage is obscene, and the only effective solution is to stack armor modules and have fighter protection.
Modding Fighter and Bombers to have a fixed weight would go a long way.

Hmm... both of this sounds like you haven't played the latest patch.

Bomber-Damage is okay and both bombers and fighters have a fixed weight.

thuvian wrote:

Fighters are only worthwhile to stop bombers.

Yeah, I think I should throw them out of the small Craver-ship that uses them right now.

Another problem for me was the medium sized-ships. Most of them are just bad. They can't tank well enough to make them worthwhile for that and they are useless as glasscannons due to the limitations of how much they can target. You probably have seen how I "solved" this :\

thuvian

Newcomer

thuvian

Newcomer

11 years ago

Jun 17, 2014, 7:20:51 PM

Isn't 1.1.42 latest? I couldn't find any more recent updates or patch notes. I did some major tests with Gwydion5 on that patch. He was going to post it but I think he lost interest like it did.
By bomber damage being obscene, I meant that bombers did a large amount of damage. Well, level 1 & 3 bombers do. Level 2 bombers are worse than level 1 bombers. Fighters do poor damage, but are one of the two things that can deal with fighters.
My best anti-GC tactic was medium hulls with just enough defense/armor to last past killing more than its $ in Low/Little Glass Cannon Destroyers (LGCD). So LGCD kills GCD. LDGCC (Light Dual Defense Glass Cannon Cruisers) kills LGCD. GCD kills LDGCC. Then large ships as GCD-killers, with all mixture of LR Kinetics/Beams/Missiles and MR Beams(and bombers), with enough armor to survive just long enough to pay for themselves in GCDs. A secondary class of large ships were the invulnerable ships they don't have the DPS to make much progress, but are only really weak against Bomber GCDs. They key is to keep rotating in fresh Bomber GCDs with full bombers. Attritional really neuters the damage they do, and then your opponent can cheese the repair card. (Not that the AI does).
I think I posted my last designs back in the old thread. Harmony mediums have a decent trait which allowed the variant I described above. I'm not sure about the others.

Romeo

Literary Transformer

Never shift in to reverse without a backup plan.

Romeo

Literary Transformer

38 900g2g pts

11 years ago

Jun 18, 2014, 3:52:06 AM

In a bit of a hurry, but from what I've played so far, this is pretty nifty!

Uncle_Joe

Newcomer

Uncle_Joe

Newcomer

21 100g2g pts

10 years ago

Jun 16, 2015, 3:23:16 AM

Does anyone know if this mod works with the latest version of the game? And is it necessary/desirable anymore or has the game been patched to take these types of changes into account?

thuvian

Newcomer

thuvian

Newcomer

9 years ago

Jul 20, 2015, 7:02:32 AM

I haven't looked at the files, but I have been catching up on some of the forum posts. My conclusion is that the changes proposed in this mod (and my addendums) still hold. The exactly values and balancing might be off, but I'm pretty sure it will be a better experience than default. Updating the mod for the latest version would also be relatively straightforward. Document the unlisted xml changes that the last balance patch added and then see if it changes any of the builds.

Uncle_Joe

Newcomer

Uncle_Joe

Newcomer

21 100g2g pts

9 years ago

Jul 26, 2015, 5:12:36 PM

Thanks for the input. I did try these ships but ultimately it felt like the game just came down to LR Kinetics (since the AI with these templates heavily uses them, I had to follow suit). So I tweaked the damage down on the LR Kinetics in my own mod (posted here) and stuck with the standard AI templates which has resulted in a more diverse game.

thuvian

Newcomer

thuvian

Newcomer

9 years ago

Jul 29, 2015, 1:25:50 AM

Uncle_Joe wrote:
Thanks for the input. I did try these ships but ultimately it felt like the game just came down to LR Kinetics (since the AI with these templates heavily uses them, I had to follow suit). So I tweaked the damage down on the LR Kinetics in my own mod (posted here) and stuck with the standard AI templates which has resulted in a more diverse game.

I saw and read your mod thread which motivated me enough to make some comments. I have mixed feelings about the entire game.

The templates use them because they are the most efficient. You could choose something else, but it would be less efficient and you'd end up worse off. I really think that the entire combat system needs to be revamped. I wrote up a thread back in the day about some possibilities and some basic calculations, but lost interest in the game before I finished anything. Hopefully you'll have more luck if you continue to pursue it. I would encourage you not settle by just lowering Long Range Kinetic damage (and really all LR weapons), but to instead consider the battle cards, all weapons, and battle phases in finding a reasonable balance that is compelling.

Slimak81

Newcomer

Slimak81

Newcomer

6 000g2g pts

9 years ago

Aug 1, 2015, 8:30:06 PM

Man, this is superb mod for AI. I start loosing battles . It beats me on normal at the first long range phase =) All agressive configs with weapons buffs + good choice of attacking cards . Nice done.

Playing vanilla i used to win every battle no matter what . Now when i see a stack of same quantity AI ships I loose often or carry heavy causualties. I think you should make a weapon rebalance mod allowng to counter weapon buffed AI setups.

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