stasik28 wrote:
Is it? With what examples? Chimps are nearing our intelligence, we might see Planet of the Apes happen. How is the tool concept being disproved?

THere is your mistake. Our intelligence. If we redefine intelligence to not have people as it's apex, many new species appear on the horizon.



I'll give you a couple of examples: Elephant, Octopus, Crow, Dolphin, Parrot, Pig, Wolf... I can keep going. They are intelligent, even by human standards. If we are talking tool creation and use, I can add more animals to that. My point is that intelligence isn't something exclusive to us or other great apes. Lots of birds, mammals, and many cephalopod species make and use tools. The problem that we have encountered is that we measure other organisms based on our standards, and that doesn't work very well for us with each other, muchless with other species.







My goal is not to argue for the sake of arguing, but just to open some people's eyes to life around us. We don't have a clue as to what can happen, we only speculate and with our very narrow focus we are unable to see the truth all around us.

We define intelligence by advancement. Animals live their lives on routine, we go beyond. We were one of those animals that were intelligent, but we went beyond. Everyone knows animals are intelligent, no one denies it. But the thing is that they don't do anything like we do. They don't make shelter and warmth for cold winters, they don't create wonders like we do. Yes, they are intelligent, but not Space Empire intelligent.

stasik28 wrote:
We define intelligence by advancement. Animals live their lives on routine, we go beyond. We were one of those animals that were intelligent, but we went beyond. Everyone knows animals are intelligent, no one denies it. But the thing is that they don't do anything like we do. They don't make shelter and warmth for cold winters, they don't create wonders like we do. Yes, they are intelligent, but not Space Empire intelligent.

That right there is the problem. You are expecting them to think like you do. They don't. When the need is there, they can to a degree, but the moment we stop expecting them to be us, we'll see how intelligent, even using our own standards some of them are.



Now, back to the topic: Space Empires



When you define what a successful space empire is according to you, you narrow yourself and your possibility to advance. You assume an alien civilization will have the same goals and aspirations as you and yours, and within that assumption lies your loss.



Do you see what I mean?



That's why I say that the cravers need a real change in how they function, as do the sowers. I haven't really played the automatons yet.

No, I don't see what you mean. Being a supporter of Greek Mythos, I believe that animals are superior to us in almost every manner. But what our upper hand is intelligence.



I like your hypocrisy though, you complain about my "assumptions" but assume yourself. No that's not even near what I think a space empire is. My goals are my own, and so is my mind. I cannot even comprehend what an alien civilization might want. Maybe they became advanced without even trying and just want to explore the galaxy and see the sights as one might travel on Earth.



Not I didn't say ADVANCED alien civilization, and later said MAYBE one became advanced. In case you try to assume more about my narrow mind.

seems like a great idea with good support backing it

Nasarog wrote:
THere is your mistake. Our intelligence. If we redefine intelligence to not have people as it's apex, many new species appear on the horizon.



I'll give you a couple of examples: Elephant, Octopus, Crow, Dolphin, Parrot, Pig, Wolf... I can keep going. They are intelligent, even by human standards. If we are talking tool creation and use, I can add more animals to that. My point is that intelligence isn't something exclusive to us or other great apes. Lots of birds, mammals, and many cephalopod species make and use tools. The problem that we have encountered is that we measure other organisms based on our standards, and that doesn't work very well for us with each other, muchless with other species.



My goal is not to argue for the sake of arguing, but just to open some people's eyes to life around us. We don't have a clue as to what can happen, we only speculate and with our very narrow focus we are unable to see the truth all around us.

And how many cases of the provided animals have they ever gown beyond being an animal sociality?



It's easy to guess what might happen, but there is no proof that an elephant will ever evolve to become more intelligent based on their form, and that's skipping that most of these species are going to go extinct because they were out competed by ape or humanoid intelligence that was superior, and thus is a superior modal for a space empire.



Animals like the octopus have had millennia to beat us to the civilisation level, and yet haven't. So it is highly dubious that they will ever get there.

HumanSpacer wrote:
Awesome! I'm impressed with your skills. lol What program did you use?

GIMP with a mouse; but im developing a hybrid because a mouse is quite hard to use precisely when you have draw with a pencil/pen for all your drawings in your life, so im just going to start scanning in normal drawings and smoothing them out in GIMP like the corvette - until i get a drawing tablet.

stasik28 wrote:
No, I don't see what you mean. Being a supporter of Greek Mythos, I believe that animals are superior to us in almost every manner. But what our upper hand is intelligence.



I like your hypocrisy though, you complain about my "assumptions" but assume yourself. No that's not even near what I think a space empire is. My goals are my own, and so is my mind. I cannot even comprehend what an alien civilization might want. Maybe they became advanced without even trying and just want to explore the galaxy and see the sights as one might travel on Earth.



Not I didn't say ADVANCED alien civilization, and later said MAYBE one became advanced. In case you try to assume more about my narrow mind.

Wow, really?? I didn't realize that YOU had taken this personally.



When I use you, my intention was a general use of the word when applied to the reader, not you, as in YOU stasik28.



Where did I say or imply narrow mind? I was talking about the pathway to success. YOU need to relax, and look at what I wrote. I had wanted to discuss, not argue and get anyone angry.



Sorry bud, that was never my goal. I apologize.

Igncom1 wrote:
And how many cases of the provided animals have they ever gown beyond being an animal sociality?



It's easy to guess what might happen, but there is no proof that an elephant will ever evolve to become more intelligent based on their form, and that's skipping that most of these species are going to go extinct because they were out competed by ape or humanoid intelligence that was superior, and thus is a superior modal for a space empire.



Animals like the octopus have had millennia to beat us to the civilisation level, and yet haven't. So it is highly dubious that they will ever get there.

Absolutely, I can not explain nor would I ever try to as to why we have "won" out and other animals didn't when they had the opportunities. All I know is that we are highly advanced in many respects, but at the end of the day, if we do not eliminate ourselves, we might still succumb to an Amoeba or another single-celled organism. Who knows what other creature might "rise" and take our place, or maybe we're just a one-off model never to be repeated again.



Back to my original point: Asked - why are the majority of these games centered on aliens that resemble us when there are infinite possibilities in an Endless Space??

Answered - Because!!!!



To the OP: Keep up the good work. :thumbsup:

What a comment explosion overnight - what an argument over bi-pedals. I supose i tended towards bipedal because of flying stuff like birds having two legs (now i do not believe in evolution); i might as well add that Draconian's can walk on two legs but can go primal and run on all four legs as well; having a multi-limbed alien would be fun... who is to say the wildlife isn't just extraordinary on the ocean world.

You could have mechanical extra limbs like Dr.octopus .....or possibly have a grasper on their tails for some monkey trickery.

Digitalhawk96 wrote:
What a comment explosion overnight - what an argument over bi-pedals. I supose i tended towards bipedal because of flying stuff like birds having two legs (now i do not believe in evolution); i might as well add that Draconian's can walk on two legs but can go primal and run on all four legs as well; having a multi-limbed alien would be fun... who is to say the wildlife isn't just extraordinary on the ocean world.

Sorry if I polluted your thread.

Nasarog wrote:
Sorry if I polluted your thread.

I'm fine, gave me a laugh for the day... what ruined it is being told that I will have no internet till Monday because we have reached to final stage of house moving... which has ruined my ES multiplayer game with all the fun people here on the forums. It might be just me but, i am not sitting in an empty house i don't even live in anymore to play an awesome game just because our internet still runs there - until it is rerouted on Monday. So now I'm back to helping to run a gaming club on Saturday and being annoyed, if not freaked out, that i cannot access the forums for 3 days.



Also, now that i look at what i wrote before on the bi-pedal argument, the English structure just looks so wrong in places. I suppose i was writing it as i was trying to leave my house, that might explain it.

Nasarog wrote:


Back to my original point: Asked - why are the majority of these games centered on aliens that resemble us when there are infinite possibilities in an Endless Space??

Answered - Because!!!!

Because... we don't have much experience with other lifeforms. But I guess a centaur or half human half spider race would be kind of cool, but the problem is that it'll be kind of weird looking having them sitting in a commanders seat (at least the centaurs) With other life forms, if they don't have hands, it would be slightly hard for them to make the space ships in the first place (unless they are telekinetic)

u dont need hands amoebas proof that so i would say there are no limitations at all.

Sovereign wrote:
u dont need hands amoebas proof that so i would say there are no limitations at all.

Hmm I guess, but they are heavily dust influenced, so their powers do help

bloody cells! #drubk

Igncom1 wrote:
bloody cells! #drubk

Damnit Ingcom1, why so random lol

stasik28 wrote:
Damnit Ingcom1, why so random lol

Me and drunk igncom1 are good friends.

Digitalhawk96 wrote:
GIMP with a mouse; but im developing a hybrid because a mouse is quite hard to use precisely when you have draw with a pencil/pen for all your drawings in your life, so im just going to start scanning in normal drawings and smoothing them out in GIMP like the corvette - until i get a drawing tablet.

You used GIMP? Last time I tried to draw something with that program it looked more like a child's drawing using Paint. Where did you learn advanced techniques?

Maybe classes, playing around, googling and youtube videos prob