Henzington wrote:
I reasonable complaint could be that you are tracked and advertised at but if you didnt want that you just shouldnt be on the internet period.

That, and the advertisements are just for sales and new games - the kinds of things you would probably want to see anyway. It's better than watching a video on Youtube about math and having to watch a sports ad.

And still, you could use Steam without ever even seeing the ads. Your Steam experience could consist entirely of your desktop icons. Complaining about the ads that are actually advertising useful stuff isn't a very reasonable complaint.

I would venture to guess ignorance, as that is where most "hate" stems from. Bad experiences with other similar providers, like Origin, and a refusal to try an alternative? If there's anything I hate about Steam, it's the fact that I spend way too much money on it. I think my wife hates that more than I do though, haha.

Misternik wrote:
I would venture to guess ignorance, as that is where most "hate" stems from. Bad experiences with other similar providers, like Origin, and a refusal to try an alternative? If there's anything I hate about Steam, it's the fact that I spend way too much money on it. I think my wife hates that more than I do though, haha.

After Origin and EA attacked Steam because they thought their constant sales would destroy gaming, when Steam has so much evidence to the contrary, should negate that. And I don't have that problem anymore, seeing as Steam has already eaten to the bottom dollar of my wallet.

Still, I'm kind of upset that the people commenting are just more people speculating; I was hoping to get some of the actual "haters" to voice their actual opinions, rather than people just as confused as I guessing about it.

There is also a sense of nostalgia that somehow things were so much better in the past when in reality things were usually much worse.

Henzington wrote:
There is also a sense of nostalgia that somehow things were so much better in the past when in reality things were usually much worse.

I hate to keep posting so much without people who actually dislike the software posting, but this also seems like a backwards argument. First of all, it's like saying things were better before TV, therefore TV is bad. or, better yet: The people who say Metacritic is a horrible site because of how seriously publishers take it. You can't blame Metacritic for the way publishers interpret its numbers. Metacritic has a goal: To "grade" games. You might not always agree with the numbers, but they accomplish their goal well. You can't blame Metacritic. You can't blame TV for being an advancement in entertainment. And you can't blame Steam for leading the digital revolution.

Secondly, whether or not you think things were better in the past, how do you prove it? How was it possible for a developer to judge how much their game is being pirated? Maybe when you were a kid or when you were a teenage or when you were an adult and the Internet still young, you might never have even been aware that piracy existed. But piracy isn't new, it's just that it hasn't been paid attention to for very long. Maybe this meant developers didn't give you DRM and other bad things that attempted to counter it, but when Steam avoids doing what those other publishers do, it's not even a valid argument against Steam.

Fenrakk101 wrote:
After Origin and EA attacked Steam because they thought their constant sales would destroy gaming, when Steam has so much evidence to the contrary, should negate that. And I don't have that problem anymore, seeing as Steam has already eaten to the bottom dollar of my wallet.

Still, I'm kind of upset that the people commenting are just more people speculating; I was hoping to get some of the actual "haters" to voice their actual opinions, rather than people just as confused as I guessing about it.

ES is the game that made me install steam. And now I have bought 6 other games -____-

Before ES, I didn't want of steam on my computer because I didn't like the fact that you have to be online. But fact is I am always with internet ON.

I didn't like the fact that steam was another software than the one I was buying. Kind of like you buy a car but you have to get someone to drive it if you want to use it.

When I read some haters comments on the net, the main argument is about DRM. A lot of "dislikers" don't want to pay for a game they don't know if they'll be able to play it in 2 or 3 or 40 or 14234 years.

But fact is.. how many games do we play that are older than a couple of years ? I'm a gamer that like old games and new games. I loved fallout 1 and love Fallout- New Vegas. I loved to play Sanitarium. I love to play Warlock or Symphony.

I loved to play Fantasy General, but after playing at Fantasy Wars and Elven Legacy and now Warlock I just can't stand the age of FG.

This has been discussed to death already - on these same forums.



One of the bigger reasons for the hate is that Steam can (and has) revoke all access to your games if they feel you have done something they don't like. Not just the online access mind you - your entire library of games.



Just to name one.

I've seen this come up a few times. I'm not here to start a debate; quite frankly, I'm just confused. I don't really see any reason people would hate the program. There are only two reasons I can possibly fathom:

A - Steam will often automatically update games, which can sometimes cause issues (Although I think you can disable automatic updates which makes this a non-issue)

B - They just dislike it because it's popular

Really, I just want to hear the kinds of reasons people have for not liking Steam. And again: please don't let this become a huge argument/flame war.



Things I've learned:

Mansen - One of the bigger reasons for the hate is that Steam can (and has) revoke all access to your games if they feel you have done something they don't like. Not just the online access mind you - your entire library of games.

nats - Fianlly you cant resell your Steam games once you have finished with them. Admittedly I never got that much for most of my old games but the odd one did make a bit of money that I spent on a new game. You cant do that with Steam.

Igncom1 wrote:
I wouldn't call myself a hater, but I am worried about the potential monopoly steam is becoming.

Steam can't become a monopoly. For one, they're illegal in the United States. If Valve somehow found a way to eliminate all competition for digital game distribution (which is highly unlikely), they're going to find themselves in trouble.



Besides, they'll never get get services like Origin, GreeManGaming, and so on to go away. Steam will likely stay the most popular service, but a service just the same, with other options out there. Like Microsoft. The only issue they're going to have is if enough people get fed up with their practices and force a change, like with their refund policies.

The only reason I dislike steam is because my internet is too slow for me to utilise it properly and that's more of a location issue.

I dont hate Steam.



I just dont like some aspects of Steam:

• I just dont want to be relying on Steam for all my games.
• Steam games are more expensive than via retail outlets (mostly).
• But the most sensitive reason for me disliking Steam is the lack of refunds they give if a game doesnt work. Previously I would just take a game back to a shop and get a refund or at the very least a credit note, sometimes with some haggling. With Amazon its a simple matter of sending the boxed game back for an immediate refund. But with Steam you have to submit and ticket, wait for an automated rely, satisfy them that there is a reasonable fault, that isnt to do with your computer tech or a lack of understanding on your part (thats quite difficult to do actually), and they after all that you might get a credit note to spend on another Steam game.
• Fianlly you cant resell your Steam games once you have finished with them. Admittedly I never got that much for most of my old games but the odd one did make a bit of money that I spent on a new game. You cant do that with Steam.
  
  

Those are the main reasons I dislike Steam.



However balancing the above is the ease of obtaining updates and DRM, the fact I dont need disks anymore to play my games, plus the ease at reinstalling them all in one go.



So now I am very careful what I buy from Steam. Steam has actually saved me a lot of money because rather than impulse buying as I used to a lot, I now dont buy anything unless I have tried a demo, read forum postings, looked at reviews and looked at Youtube videos of the game in action. So on the whole Steam is a good thing for me as long as I dont buy duff games from them. And that is quite an easy thing to do if you are sensible.

The only thing i dont like on steam is, that i cant resell my games & that getting refunds is almost impossible, as nats said - im glad to have steam, for backups and auto-updates!

VieuxChat wrote:
ES is the game that made me install steam. And now I have bought 6 other games -____-

Before ES, I didn't want of steam on my computer because I didn't like the fact that you have to be online. But fact is I am always with internet ON.

I didn't like the fact that steam was another software than the one I was buying. Kind of like you buy a car but you have to get someone to drive it if you want to use it.

When I read some haters comments on the net, the main argument is about DRM. A lot of "dislikers" don't want to pay for a game they don't know if they'll be able to play it in 2 or 3 or 40 or 14234 years.

But fact is.. how many games do we play that are older than a couple of years ? I'm a gamer that like old games and new games. I loved fallout 1 and love Fallout- New Vegas. I loved to play Sanitarium. I love to play Warlock or Symphony.

I loved to play Fantasy General, but after playing at Fantasy Wars and Elven Legacy and now Warlock I just can't stand the age of FG.

With the business Steam has right now, I highly doubt they're going to go away within our lifetimes. I think our games are pretty safe. And I would probably play a lot more older games if I still had them; Star Wars: Galactic Battlegrounds was one of the best games from my childhood, but I have no way of playing it anymore now.

And if you dislike Steam because of the way it eats your wallet, all stores try to do that. Ikea designs their buildings like a maze so you spend more time in them, so that you're more likely to buy more. And they don't have daily massive sales.

Mansen wrote:
One of the bigger reasons for the hate is that Steam can (and has) revoke all access to your games if they feel you have done something they don't like. Not just the online access mind you - your entire library of games.

This one is interesting. I don't really find it as an issue, since I'm not trying to pirate games or anything, so I'm not worried about that - but I can see why some people don't like the thought of that looming over their head.

FinalStrigon wrote:

Igncom1 wrote:
I wouldn't call myself a hater, but I am worried about the potential monopoly steam is becoming.

Steam can't become a monopoly. For one, they're illegal in the United States. If Valve somehow found a way to eliminate all competition for digital game distribution (which is highly unlikely), they're going to find themselves in trouble.



Besides, they'll never get get services like Origin, GreeManGaming, and so on to go away. Steam will likely stay the most popular service, but a service just the same, with other options out there. Like Microsoft. The only issue they're going to have is if enough people get fed up with their practices and force a change, like with their refund policies.

Just like you say. Considering how stubborn Microsoft has been in not eliminating their Games for Windows Live service, I doubt that other digital distributors like Origin and Impulse (now owned by Gamestop) are going to go away. Even if Steam doesn't have any competition, looking at their popularity, they'll still have competitors. And if Steam did become a monopoly, they've more or less proved by now that they're only interested in their customers' best interests.



As for refunds - try getting a refund out of Origin. ...Although, I haven't tried that myself, so for all I know it's easier. But as a Steam fanatic I'll assume the process is relatively the same.

InFlamesWeTrust wrote:
The only reason I dislike steam is because my internet is too slow for me to utilise it properly and that's more of a location issue.

This is another one I understand, but like you said, it's not really Steam doing anything wrong. It's a reason to avoid it, but not to hate it.

nats wrote:
I just dont want to be relying on Steam for all my games.

I'm pretty sure a lot of people (myself included) would rather have all their games on Steam, considering how convenient it is. Still, I don't fully understand the argument here. Steam doesn't prevent you from buying games from other services (Impulse, Origin) and they don't prevent you from installing retail games that don't have Steam built-in. Care to elaborate?

nats wrote:
Steam games are more expensive than via retail outlets (mostly).

This is one I seriously have an issue with. Considering the frequency of sales, even if you could find a retailer selling the game for cheaper than Steam, it wouldn't be cheaper for too long.

nats wrote:
But the most sensitive reason for me disliking Steam is the lack of refunds they give if a game doesnt work. Previously I would just take a game back to a shop and get a refund or at the very least a credit note, sometimes with some haggling. With Amazon its a simple matter of sending the boxed game back for an immediate refund. But with Steam you have to submit and ticket, wait for an automated rely, satisfy them that there is a reasonable fault, that isnt to do with your computer tech or a lack of understanding on your part (thats quite difficult to do actually), and they after all that you might get a credit note to spend on another Steam game.

This has been discussed before, but it seems more like an issue with digital distributors than with Steam. I understand the inconvenience, but you should also understand the position Steam is in. People could easily buy a game, crack it, give it back, then distribute it. And you haven't actually "returned" anything to Steam; with Amazon, you still have to return the box and then Amazon can resell it.

That said, I can actually see this as an argument for disliking Steam. Although I will say, just only buy games you know you want - or try the demos?

nats wrote:
Finally you cant resell your Steam games once you have finished with them. Admittedly I never got that much for most of my old games but the odd one did make a bit of money that I spent on a new game. You cant do that with Steam.

I can understand this point, but again, it sounds more like an issue with digital distributors than with Steam. When returning a game to Gamestop, for example, you're giving them back the game - they can resell it and make a profit, meaning the game return policy is a win-win. You can't do that with Steam because they can't exactly 'resell' it, meaning it's only a win for you.



I can see why people would dislike this, but again, it's not really a problem for me. I've never really returned games, even after I was done with them; I can be a sporadic player sometimes, meaning I could not play a game for two years and then suddenly have an urge to play it.

nats wrote:
However balancing the above is the ease of obtaining updates and DRM, the fact I dont need disks anymore to play my games, plus the ease at reinstalling them all in one go.

I often feel that these are things people forget. There are definitely times where I want to have a boxed version of the game - Spore's Galactic Edition taught me that. But when I need to constantly swap out my Empire at War and Sins of a Solar Empire disks when I want to play them, I almost feel like I'm stuck ten years in the past. "This is 2012!"

nats wrote:
So now I am very careful what I buy from Steam. Steam has actually saved me a lot of money because rather than impulse buying as I used to a lot, I now dont buy anything unless I have tried a demo, read forum postings, looked at reviews and looked at Youtube videos of the game in action. So on the whole Steam is a good thing for me as long as I dont buy duff games from them. And that is quite an easy thing to do if you are sensible.

And if you're unsure of a game, wait for it to be on sale!

In my experience, those who hate steam normally fall into two categories:



1.) Poor internet connection.



2.) Older gamer and/or nontechnical.



The first category is understandable, but you cannot blame steam for your poor internet connection. Just like you cannot play most console games without an internet connection, you can't play most PC games without an internet connection. it's the nature of the beast. Its like like Its like blaming a car company because your 70 year old car isn't working properly.



The second category applies mostly to 30+ gamers and the nontechnical. The former hate steam because it is new and a rather big change in gaming. The latter because they lack basic computer skills and have trouble doing even the most simplistic steam-related things. Most steam-related problems people have are self-inflicted, whether they know it or not.





While I completely agree with the moral stance people have with DRM systems similar to steam, steam is a cut above the rest. I hate GFWL, Ubisoft's game system, Blizzard's always on connection, Origin, and every other system out there. I fear the future of gaming because of the rising corporatism of the market and the sicking business practices of large gaming publishes. I can't stand money-grabbing DLC and the increasing price of gaming. But steam is different.



Steam allows you to install your game on ANY computer consecutively, nobody else lets you do that. It is a great way to meet people and has a good community. Valve has single-handed resurected a dying PC gaming market and, for the most part, participates in ethic business practices. They also support indie titles, such as Endless Space, and allow them to compete on the market. Not only that, but steam has crazy game deals.



Where else can you buy $400 worth of games for under $60?

nats wrote:
I dont hate Steam.

• Steam games are more expensive than via retail outlets (mostly).
  
  

Where do you live? Steam games are always sold at retail price unless they are having a sale (which they ALWAYS have). Not only that but there is no tax. lol

nats wrote:
I dont hate Steam.

• But the most sensitive reason for me disliking Steam is the lack of refunds they give if a game doesnt work. Previously I would just take a game back to a shop and get a refund or at the very least a credit note, sometimes with some haggling. With Amazon its a simple matter of sending the boxed game back for an immediate refund. But with Steam you have to submit and ticket, wait for an automated rely, satisfy them that there is a reasonable fault, that isnt to do with your computer tech or a lack of understanding on your part (thats quite difficult to do actually), and they after all that you might get a credit note to spend on another Steam game.
  
  
  
  

That's weird. I actually bought a game a week ago that didn't work and I got a refund within and hour of sending a message. Granted, it was a store credit, but it worked out either way.

Yep, you can have refund, under certain conditions ... but I'm often afraid to ask, since the number of examples of people having their account blocked for sometimes a long time when they're in "negociation" with steam.



My main worries are :

- what when Stem will fall ? Because nothing last forever.

- we cannot really use our games offline. Yes, somes games just need an internet connection to work, I agree. But a lot doesn't, and it's just Steam which is a pain in ... The so-called offline mode is broken since the beginning and no-one at valve is even trying to fix it. You can play offline only if you switched your account to the offline mode when you were online ... lolwut. Even though, sometimes it doesn't work and you can't know why.

- about re-selling your games ... I don't like not having this possibility. But I've to admit I never actually did it before, not with pc games.



On the other side :

- I don't find it more expensive, specially because I buy a lot of game way after their release and steam makes a lot of sales

- I appreciate not having to go through all the troubles of patching and stuff by myself

- I love playing oldies (and without OS problems etc)

- Steam was and is a really good thing for all indies studios, and for the video-game economy in general. It wasn't possible before to have the relation we have now with dev studios, all updates for more materials, all the modding etc. GéG is a good example of that, in fact. Even if there's some excesses with unfinished games, games empty with hundred of charged DLC etc



I definitively wouldn't say that I hate Steam.



And I've to say ... it's profondly stupid and so, but Steam success is just icing on the cake (even if it's a lie)