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Affinities discussion

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4 years ago
Oct 29, 2020, 6:17:18 PM

On the discord, we were discussing affinities and their wording in the opendev and the ability itself and if it's viable.


The militarist affinity ability of "levying population" seems like it could be improved upon. A cheaper unit cost (production, pop, or strategic resource) would make more sense as people in a "militarist culture" would be more willing to support a war or a war effort. Even a morale boost during wars would make sense, and in my opinion be more effective.


What does the "forward trade ability" mean? Is it explained in the description?

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4 years ago
Oct 29, 2020, 6:27:50 PM

Since army production now has to deal with spending population to create armies, why not give Militarist a mode where, for a few turns, creating military units doesn't cost population? Of course, these units then couldn't be disbanded for a population afterwards though, that'd be a bit much.

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4 years ago
Oct 29, 2020, 7:22:24 PM
Hodgepodge wrote:

Since army production now has to deal with spending population to create armies, why not give Militarist a mode where, for a few turns, creating military units doesn't cost population? Of course, these units then couldn't be disbanded for a population afterwards though, that'd be a bit much.

I see the value in such an ability, however I think it might be too much to handle population as a unit resource. As in, units now have a "population spent" resource to take into account when disbanding.


An alternative I could think that follows the same train of thought could be a mode where producing military units is very cheap (only military units). Another idea as a side passive could be adding some extra experience on creation but that may be too much.

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4 years ago
Oct 29, 2020, 7:45:08 PM

Adding experience isn't bad, although just generally more powerful units are kinda boring also. It could be more like the merchant ability with a couple less powerful abilities. Maybe slightly cheaper units that have slightly more combat strength combined with a unique ability that isn't too powerful.

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Nov 1, 2020, 10:46:12 AM
My favorite affinities in term of gameplay, so far : Agrarian, Aesthete, and Scientists.
- Agrarian and Aesthete are ultra gamey, a choice between two different powerful actions, it seems to have a lot of potential
- Scientist is simply about yields convertions into science, but the addional gimmick which give access to next era technologies is awesome.

My experience with Merchant affinity was okay. Seems really strong, but I was a little disappointed than I didn't really feel the affinity. Only buying luxury ressources when I can. (not premium ones). And I don't really know what is "Forward Trade" action on Empire.
Maybe I expected too much for this affinity, because I want to play the merchants.^^ But, I would have liked an action button like other affinities, which make me feel like the richest empire of earth for a brief moment, and which makes us spend a lot of accumulated money.

My dream would be probably a button available after a certain number of turns which give you access to one special buyout : buyout a technology than an opponent already have, buyout one emblematic unit from another culture, buyout a wonder or its construction, ...). Something a little more "crazy" and "fun".
Or something slier : Trade routes bombing, stealing, ... ? :p

Expansionist seems strong, but really specific and situational ? I didn't really have occasions to use it in OpenDev Stadia. Giving more opportunities and passives to expansionist affinity could be great.
Like something about usurping territory of a vassal (and generate a grievance) ? or the territory of an independant poeple ? or claiming an empty territory with the action ?


Militarist is weird, I mean "levying population" makes a lof of sense and it's really enjoyable to push a button and spawn a squad. But spawning the generic militia looks ... weak and not sexy at all?

Only with OpenDev, I can't really understand what is the exact purpose of militarist ability.

- Grinding Militarist Era Stars on Independant armies and animals ?

- Pushing Violent Inpendant armies out of our territories ?

- Counter-attack ?

- Taking undefended outposts ?

- Cleaning lairs and sanctuaries ?


Seems to have a lot of potential, but maybe I'm just not convinced by the unit itself ?

Even in term of immersion, I don't feel than spawning a gang of peasants with a club really fit with militarist Huns for exemple. So I like the substance, not the form.

If the militia was a little more sexy, in term of aesthetic and artwork, and a bit buffed, maybe it will be already more attractive ?


When we didn't know what the affinity was doing, we could still argue in a rethoric way "this culture is militarist because...singular military doctrine...or whatever". But now, in term of gameplay, it don't have so much sense for some of the militarist cultures, in my humble opinion.


Again with the exemple with Huns, their singular nomadic gameplay, their strong unit, I don't understand what affinity brings to them, what is the synergy with these militia. I don't even think they need it. Is this affinity a sort of nerf because the overall design of militarist cultures is already too strong ? I don't know, but this affinity is definitly the less sexy of the roster :p


For a bonus related to moral, I can't imagine something too much interwined. It make sense, but it will limit the possibilities in legacy trait. For exemple the Hittite one is already related to moral. Same with unit experience, with the Mycenean Legacy trait.
The only idea than I can imagine is a small reduction in moral loss when a militaristic culture loses a battle . So it goes hand in hand with the idea of being motivated to go to war.

Finally, the affinity I like the least : Builder. Simply because very basic, no gimmicks, and not gamey. It's just about converting yields into production.

It's definitely very strong, but it's not appealing, or fun.

(shared project on wonders exclusive for builders ? being able to build a wonder reclaimed before someone else when builder ? ...)



Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
Nov 1, 2020, 11:31:35 AM

I was wondering - if I understood this correclty - is the Mycenean legacy trait of +200% unit experience not really quite strong? If you can keep this throughout the game.... I think that is powerful, no?

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4 years ago
Nov 1, 2020, 3:19:09 PM

Seems useful, yes. Hard to know without the game in hands. But yes, for me, their LT is appealing, even if I am not interessed into warmongering.

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