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Early game Militaristic and Expansion stars on normal difficulty

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4 years ago
May 4, 2021, 6:44:39 PM

I found that with a decent start it is not hard to get the first stars of Agricultural, Aesthete, Merchant, Builder, and Scientist (the science star had help with securing horses by an outpost and eventually turned into a city). And when having a decent start two of these star categories shown prior will trigger a second star. By then you can go into the classical era. I find that getting five cities in the ancient era is too expensive and not enough time though I only played in the ancient era as Eygpt or Hittites (I don't know if an ancient era aesthete culture will help this problem). The most cities I was able to create in the ancient era were three and each one got ridiculously more expensive with influence costs. When it comes to trying to kill 9 individual units, it is too long. Because it takes a while to build a decent army because you need a good population, decent production, and decent science. This means you are working on Agricultural, Builder, and Science stars already with the other two simultaneously without really trying hard (only for the other two). By the time you have a decent army, you should be ready to move on to the classical era. When that happens the threshold to how many units to kill increases. So in my mind what is the point of choosing Assyrians, Hittites, or Mycenaeans if you can barely if any manage to get the first star. In my mind, it is probably worth it to pick other cultures because you can get more fame by focusing on easier era stars and get more fame doing that plus you get bonuses that will help you get more resources that can help with future wars in the later era. If anything to make the game more balanced more people starting out as the Assyrians, Hittites, or Mycenaeans. Lower the threshold like kill 6 or 7 units or expand to at least 3 areas instead of 5. Or lower the cost it takes to create a new city or for expansion stars. Or make it so that outposts count to trigger an expansion star. 


Granted the highest amount of turns I played was up to turn 90. In the first game I started out as Eypgt, I was way behind in science unable to get techs that would help me defend against my neighbor in a war barely in the classical era (played as Rome in that era). Though I had insane production in my capital because I used my emblematic district and spammed a lot of industry districs my production was over 100 in that city. Then playing as the Hittites I tried to take a city predominantly with my emblematic unit and an archer I didn't realize that neither of the units can climb fortresses. Then frustrated I went back in time and the next fight I had was with fewer units and against range and spears against my melee cavalry emblematic unit with a range unit and a regular warrior and lost probably due to mismanagement. 


Another thing I was frustrated with is I did not know how to train or use battering rams if anyone can explain that to me that would be appreciated.    

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4 years ago
May 4, 2021, 7:15:19 PM

I agree that both these stars are too hard at the start of the game. Militarist stars become much easier to get as you progress but expansionist stars remain really difficult, unreasonably so.

"Lower the threshold like kill 6 or 7 units or expand to at least 3 areas instead of 5. Or lower the cost it takes to create a new city or for expansion stars. Or make it so that outposts count to trigger an expansion star. "

I'd say 6 kills might be a good number, especially since none of the other stars are really hard to get. I agree with allowing outposts to count for expansionist stars but I'd rework that category a bit.

For starters Outposts should be worth 1 point, territories/sectors 2, and the city centre itself 3, to reflect how each one costs different amount of influence. Because of all these points the requirements for the expansionist stars need to increase, but not by much. Under this new system I think intervals of 6 or 7 would be good enough for at least the ancient era.

Also you build rams and all other siege units until the mortar unlock by besieging a city until enough turns pass and you automatically build one.

Updated 4 years ago.
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4 years ago
May 4, 2021, 8:09:04 PM

Just a few points in no particular order:


- Expansionist stars are indeed bizarrely hard to get.

- Military stars... actually, if you maximized the rewards of the nomadic era, you'll hit the classical period with 8-11 Runners (if Harappan faction).  It's ridiculously easy to crush enemy scouts in this situation.

- You don't need to climb into a city to win the fight :D  Using archers to shoot them until they come out and then wiping out the enemies works too.

Updated 4 years ago.
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3 years ago
Sep 4, 2021, 2:43:22 PM

I haven't had trouble securing all 3 military stars in any Era but I've found the expansion stars to have ridiculous thresholds (in early eras at least).  With the city cap and influence cost it takes an insane amount of influence.  It doesn't make sense that a could have 3 aesthate stars and only 1 expansion star when I spend nearly all my influence on expansion, which is exactly happened in my current game in the ancient era.  


The current expansion star goals only make sense if it is counting all territories owned (even outposts) and not just attached territories.  This is more thematic for expansion stars anyway since it makes it more about exploration and grabbing territory or stealing territory from other cultures .  The involvement of cities makes expansion stars far too costly and essentially just become super aesthete stars since you need bajillions of influence to achieve them.


Updated 3 years ago.
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3 years ago
Sep 4, 2021, 2:45:19 PM

Expansionist stars depend on map size and land mass %, so if you play on a tiny 30% landmass or a huge 100% landmass the difference in amount of territories you need for the expansionist stars is going to be a world difference, like in ancient era it could be between like 2 territories for gold to 20 territories for bronze.

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3 years ago
Sep 4, 2021, 6:01:40 PM
Military stars can be easy depending of the surroundings. If you have independent people, you can farm them for stars. Declaring war to a neighbor is helpful too, if you wait for skirmish in neutral territory, that could be hard.

For expansion era, I can't help. To be honest, I think this is the only category with economic where I never had 3 stars. But contrary to economic, I tried multiple times... Remember you can conquer to avoid costs in influence. One time I was at -2000 influence per turn, and I saw My influence was negative too. But I had my second expansion star this way^^ Also, winning a war can give you a lot of territories in one turn, just make sure to invade as many territory as you can, even if you will "liberate" them after...

And yes, depending of the speed and size of the map, objectives can change...
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3 years ago
Sep 4, 2021, 6:01:46 PM
ContraryPoke wrote:

Yes, I forgot to mention I'm on a huge map, so it may be more reasonable on a smaller map.

It can be too easy on a small map, the expansionist stars can be really easy to really hard to get.

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3 years ago
Sep 4, 2021, 7:53:06 PM

My takeaway here is that the the expansion star goals need to be reworked in general.  Territory availability isn't nearly as much of a hurdle as is influence cost, so it doesn't make sense to increase the goal to where an impossible amount of influence is needed on a huge map.


I still like the idea of counting all territories instead of just attached ones, and in that case the goals as they are on a huge map are much closer to reasonable.

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