AOM wrote:

Yeah, but the dev admitted they released this beta with Denuvo and didn't tell people beforehand that it had Denuvo. That means a lot of people who don't want Denuvo had this installed on their computer without their knowledge. This was a very deceptive thing to do. I, for one, will not trust this developer again.

Did they tell you that you were going to have Denuvo installed on your computer if you installed the Poe dev? No. They didn't. I installed this junk, and I wouldn't have had I known Denuvo was part of the bargain. This dev lied to me by omission. It lied to the entire community by omission. This is how this dev treats their trusting community.

They wanted to test Denuvo, and they did it without telling us.

Maybe it was a good things, i that way all performance issue spotted in POE wasn't a lie of people hating denuvo, and in that way it really show that denuvo is an issue 

phanemy wrote:

AOM wrote:

Yeah, but the dev admitted they released this beta with Denuvo and didn't tell people beforehand that it had Denuvo. That means a lot of people who don't want Denuvo had this installed on their computer without their knowledge. This was a very deceptive thing to do. I, for one, will not trust this developer again.

Did they tell you that you were going to have Denuvo installed on your computer if you installed the Poe dev? No. They didn't. I installed this junk, and I wouldn't have had I known Denuvo was part of the bargain. This dev lied to me by omission. It lied to the entire community by omission. This is how this dev treats their trusting community.

They wanted to test Denuvo, and they did it without telling us.

Maybe it was a good things, i that way all performance issue spotted in POE wasn't a lie of people hating denuvo, and in that way it really show that denuvo is an issue 

Plot twist: the people posting against Denuvo are in fact the game crackers, trying to get amplitude to get rid of it. Ahahahah, jokes aside, happy to see the commitment from the devs to their community, much love guys!

GlorySign wrote:
I guess these are interesting questions for those who want to ponder them

And they aren't applicable here.

GlorySign wrote:
If you get Denuvo on you system and that can extract info about you and your system and send it to their servers without your permission and also leaves files behind after uninstall, files for unknown reasons that can be a security hole, serving whatever other unknown purposes they may have and they can do that because you downloaded the game and you were not informed that by downloading it you agree to the Denuvo EULA in a clear way and you don`t know about any of this does it matter?

It did nothing of those. What was your point then?

GlorySign wrote:

Sublustris wrote:

GlorySign wrote:
I guess these are interesting questions for those who want to ponder them

And they aren't applicable here.

GlorySign wrote:
If you get Denuvo on you system and that can extract info about you and your system and send it to their servers without your permission and also leaves files behind after uninstall, files for unknown reasons that can be a security hole, serving whatever other unknown purposes they may have and they can do that because you downloaded the game and you were not informed that by downloading it you agree to the Denuvo EULA in a clear way and you don`t know about any of this does it matter?

It did nothing of those. What was your point then?

How can you be sure that using Denuvo during the Poe Closed Beta did not extract and sent any data from the machines that was installed on to the Denuvo servers? Are you the Dev who implemented Denuvo in Humankind to be so sure that you know all that happened and all that was transmitted? As he is the one who knows all these details. Also as @Kwami confirmed about the initial suspicion that Denuvo was used in Poe:

I only had one of the signature key files left over after I uninstalled the beta, so I suspect that you're right.

Why did it have leftovers after uninstall? What was the purpose of the files that were not uninstalled with the game

So my point is that @AOM is right in saying that it was not mentioned in a clear way (although it should have happened) that Poe Closed Beta had Denuvo in it and you have to accept the Denuvo EULA to use it compared to the previous OpeDevs and also that we had no info about what Denuvo will extract during use and what files will remain after uninstall and with what purpose. I find this legit issues

The leftover file is the token that Denuvo uses to authenticate the game. Basically, Denuvo captures a bunch of information about your system, including hardware and software configurations, and sends that bundled up to the Denuvo servers. The server logs that request, then responds with a token that can be used to unlock the game. I'm simplifying a bit, but that's basically correct. Anyway, the token is what allows you to keep playing without checking in again.

The problem (for me) is that we don't know what information is sent to Denuvo's servers. At the very least, they're checking our hardware (processor, processor speed, memory, graphics, etc.) and software (Windows version, installed updates). But, we don't know what else they're collecting. They won't tell us. And the EULA basically says that they can collect whatever information they want to and then do with it whatever they want to. That's why Denuvo is a privacy and security problem.

But, don't worry about the leftover token file. It's just a text file with a big number in it. You can just delete it. It's not doing anything.

GlorySign wrote:
How can you be sure that using Denuvo during the Poe Closed Beta did not extract and sent any data from the machines that was installed on to the Denuvo servers? Are you the Dev who implemented Denuvo in Humankind to be so sure that you know all that happened and all that was transmitted? As he is the one who knows all these details.

How can you be sure that using Denuvo during the Poe Closed Beta did extract and sent any data from the machines that was installed on to the Denuvo servers? Are you the Dev who implemented Denuvo in Humankind to be so sure that you know all that happened and all that was transmitted? As he is the one who knows all these details.

Anyway, it looks like you again mistaken anti-cheat for anti-tamper, with former being far less intrusive, then you speculate it to be. If unsure - install WireShark, intercept all connections and all packets and check what's inside. But I guess you are more into speculations that fit your narrative, then into hard data.

And it can't do anything without your consent, because you've already gave it upon accepting EULA when first launching it.

GlorySign wrote:
Why did it have leftovers after uninstall? What was the purpose of the files that were not uninstalled with the game

It's not part of install package, it was generated by anti-temper. It's the same things as with save files and configs. Plus there's no point to delete valid token in case you decide to reinstall the game. 

Sublustris wrote:

GlorySign wrote:
How can you be sure that using Denuvo during the Poe Closed Beta did not extract and sent any data from the machines that was installed on to the Denuvo servers? Are you the Dev who implemented Denuvo in Humankind to be so sure that you know all that happened and all that was transmitted? As he is the one who knows all these details.

How can you be sure that using Denuvo during the Poe Closed Beta did extract and sent any data from the machines that was installed on to the Denuvo servers? Are you the Dev who implemented Denuvo in Humankind to be so sure that you know all that happened and all that was transmitted? As he is the one who knows all these details.

Anyway, it looks like you again mistaken anti-cheat for anti-tamper, with former being far less intrusive, then you speculate it to be. If unsure - install WireShark, intercept all connections and all packets and check what's inside. But I guess you are more into speculations that fit your narrative, then into hard data.

And it can't do anything without your consent, because you've already gave it upon accepting EULA when first launching it.

GlorySign wrote:
Why did it have leftovers after uninstall? What was the purpose of the files that were not uninstalled with the game

It's not part of install package, it was generated by anti-temper. It's the same things as with save files and configs. Plus there's no point to delete valid token in case you decide to reinstall the game. 

Did the Poe EULA mention Denuvo? I don't have a copy of that EULA available. Even if it did, the use of Denuvo should have been made more clear to us since it wasn't used in previous betas.

Anyway, good luck reading those encrypted packets with Wireshark.

kryton24 wrote:

I'm confused why are people still posting on this topic and fearing for the future essentially. It's a happy ending y'all enjoy the game launch and rock on with just usual launch problems like bugs or AI glitches without DRM.

It's ok to be happy o/

Well, it's a great result, yes, but...

1. They might put Denuvo into a future version of the game.

2. They might put Denuvo into the next game.

The wording of the statement from the studio head suggests that they're only removing Denuvo because they couldn't fix the performance problems in time for release, not because of the security and privacy concerns expressed on the forums.

It's a partial victory. We need to make sure that future releases avoid this mess entirely.

Kwami wrote:

Well, it's a great result, yes, but...

1. They might put Denuvo into a future version of the game.

2. They might put Denuvo into the next game.

The wording of the statement from the studio head suggests that they're only removing Denuvo because they couldn't fix the performance problems in time for release, not because of the security and privacy concerns expressed on the forums.

It's a partial victory. We need to make sure that future releases avoid this mess entirely.

1. It wouldn't really make sense to put DRM into a future version of the game. What would that even be for if the game originally started as DRM free.

2. Sure maybe, but that'll be years out unless you wanna count the Endless Dungeon game?

Honestly I think you can stay vigilant while putting the pitchfork down for now at least. Feel free to keep it shiny and at the ready if you want but nothing to stress over for the remainder of the year at least regarding Humankind if nothing else.

kryton24 wrote:

Kwami wrote:

Well, it's a great result, yes, but...

1. They might put Denuvo into a future version of the game.

2. They might put Denuvo into the next game.

The wording of the statement from the studio head suggests that they're only removing Denuvo because they couldn't fix the performance problems in time for release, not because of the security and privacy concerns expressed on the forums.

It's a partial victory. We need to make sure that future releases avoid this mess entirely.

1. It wouldn't really make sense to put DRM into a future version of the game. What would that even be for if the game originally started as DRM free.

2. Sure maybe, but that'll be years out unless you wanna count the Endless Dungeon game?

Honestly I think you can stay vigilant while putting the pitchfork down for now at least. Feel free to keep it shiny and at the ready if you want but nothing to stress over for the remainder of the year at least regarding Humankind if nothing else.

1. Because Denuvo is an anti-tamper technology, any "cracked" copy of the game only works for that particular version. Every patch, DLC, or other update will invalidate the "crack" if Denuvo is re-added to the game. The statement that we got only said that Denuvo wouldn't be present for the release. That's a weird thing to specify if the real plan is to give up on Denuvo for Humankind entirely. I think there's a lot of merit to the argument that adding Denuvo back later would generate a lot of negative PR and provide little benefit, but studios and publishers don't always do the obviously good thing.

2. Of course, I count Endless Dungeon! I also count the first Humankind expansion or DLC.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very happy that Denuvo isn't going to be in Humankind at release. But you did ask why we're still talking about it, so I responded. That's all!

Sublustris wrote:

@AOM If you can't tell the difference, does it matter? It's not like it's some kind of software that runs separately. It works from within game executable.

I did notice a difference, I just wasn't aware that the cause of the difference was that Denuvo had been added because the dev snuck it in without clearly notifying people of what they were getting. You can see my earlier posts elsewhere providing feedback about the Poe dev. The game crashed to desktop with errors and when it ran my computer was burning up and the fan never stopped. By the mid-game, the game speed had dropped to the point where every time I took my turn, I thought the game was going to crash. By the late game, the game had slowed to the point where it was essentially not playable. I did not experience these issues with the Victor dev. So, yeah, I noticed a difference all right.