Certain cultures in the game that historically was alive or active in the next era, should have unique units available to them as a reward for players that want to continue as them. One of my biggest issue as playing as Maya was to pick Aztec culture next, even though Mayans continued to exist in Medieval Era (although weaker, but still existed). Thus, they should continue have a unique unit for the next-era if the player chooses to Transcend their culture forward.

It makes no sense to transcend as Ottomans and keep having Janissary Units during Industrial Era, giving them a unique unit like Nizami-Cedit for Industrial Era instead would enhance the game play experience more. This would make certain cultures that lasted over several eras much more interesting to continue to play as them. This would allow most people to continue as their preferred countries in Industrial Era such as Germans, French, Italians, Mexicans into Contemporary Era as these cultures and nations have continued to exist. 

This feature should only be allowed for civilizations that continued on next era, so it should not give unique units to civilizations that did not exist in the next era. So Babylonians should not get any unique units for transcending into Classical Era, or no unique units for Maya in Industrial Era etc.

I do not really see a huge balance issue for this feature, in fact most of the balance issues are due to 10% points Transcending gives to their country. So, having 1 historically accurate unit for cultures that existed in next era seems a fair point, even if it gives a slight advantages to those cultures that does not have unique units. Unfortunately 'Transcending' cultures in the game keeps their AI Persona Uniforms and 3d City Visuals the same. But this is a problem with how Transcending  works in the game, and has nothing to do with having 1 unique unit.

One of the advantages of this mechanic would allow devs to focus on other cultures rather than copy-pasting same cultures to different eras, since there is no point adding another French or German civilization in Contemporary Era when we already have these cultures in Industrial Era.

The main question would be, how do you chose which culture gets some extra love in the next Era if you Transcend it ? Some cultures historically went through more than two eras like the Byzantines - you can argue they were active in the Classical, Medieval and Early modern Eras.

Where do you draw the line ? :)

Totally agree with Turkpasha's idea, Some cultures are last longer more than 1 era and some are still ongoing until this day.

Some ongoing cultures should start in ancient or classical then transcend with new emblematic units and quarters when enter new era like Chinese starts in Ancient era which based on Shang and Zhou dynasties then transcend to classical era which based on Qin and Han dynasties with Chu-Ko-Nu/Zhuge Nu Crossbowmen as emblematic unit and Papermaker as emblematic quartier after that transcended to medieval era which based on Tang and Song dynasty with Fire Lance as emblematic unit and Taixue as emblematic. 

Other cultures like Japanese also should start in Classical Japanese then transcend with new emblematic units when enter new eras. This also applies to many other cultures like Korean, English, French, German, Siamese and Russian that started in medieval era for allowing to transcend with new emblematic units.

In my opinion, what you're talking about is just adding more cultures to the game. Transcending is sticking to your cards and forfeiting any bonuses for boost to your fame (which is, arguably, too small to make up for what you lose, but that's different discussion). The suggestion is too much of a 'eat cake and have it too'.

Melliores wrote:

The main question would be, how do you chose which culture gets some extra love in the next Era if you Transcend it ? Some cultures historically went through more than two eras like the Byzantines - you can argue they were active in the Classical, Medieval and Early modern Eras.

Where do you draw the line ? :)

I think for sake of simplicity it should start with 1 era. For the case of Byzantines which is similar to Ottomans, we should respect where they start as a civilization. You could argue that Ottomans start in Medieval Era instead of Early Modern Era. Putting cultures in previous eras would cost a lot more work for the Devs compared to just adding a unique unit when transcending, since they have to change 3D Graphics. But in my honest opinion, since we have Rome in Classical Era, there is no need for Byzantines in Classical Period.

Joestaris wrote:

Totally agree with Turkpasha's idea, Some cultures are last longer more than 1 era and some are still ongoing until this day.

Some ongoing cultures should start in ancient or classical then transcend with new emblematic units and quarters when enter new era like Chinese starts in Ancient era which based on Shang and Zhou dynasties then transcend to classical era which based on Qin and Han dynasties with Chu-Ko-Nu/Zhuge Nu Crossbowmen as emblematic unit and Papermaker as emblematic quartier after that transcended to medieval era which based on Tang and Song dynasty with Fire Lance as emblematic unit and Taixue as emblematic. 

Other cultures like Japanese also should start in Classical Japanese then transcend with new emblematic units when enter new eras. This also applies to many other cultures like Korean, English, French, German, Siamese and Russian that started in medieval era for allowing to transcend with new emblematic units.

Thank you for suggestion for posting your opinion. Even though I agree with you that a lot of cultures in the game are based on 'dynasties' of actual cultures, it is better to not change their name or merge with their actual cultures for sake of game balance. But as I said, if you play as Joseon in Early Modern, when you transcend in Industrial Era, you should get a unique unit since Joseon lasted to 1897. But they can add a separate culture called Korean for Contemporary Era. Just like they added both Ottoman and Turkish in different eras, I don't have issue with that since that was the culture design devs decided to use, and keep Ottomans and Turks as different civilizations.

In the case of adding unique buildings, my suggestion was based on Transcending Mechanic, so players should only get a unique unit not new building (since its same culture). But if the devs do put a better culture system to merge with dynasties (so you start as China instead of Zhou etc). Then that would work well, but I don't think devs will rework their system. But if they do, that would solve my suggestion on adding unique units on 'transcending'. 

DNLH wrote:

In my opinion, what you're talking about is just adding more cultures to the game. Transcending is sticking to your cards and forfeiting any bonuses for boost to your fame (which is, arguably, too small to make up for what you lose, but that's different discussion). The suggestion is too much of a 'eat cake and have it too'.

Thank you for your comments. Sorry if I did not clearly made myself understood, I did not suggest to add new cultures since they would be too much of copy paste. And issue is imagine playing as a Industrial France and having another civilization called France.2.0 for Contemporary Era. While there is no problem using dynasty or regional names for certain cultures like Ottomans instead of Turks, Joseon instead of Koreans, Zhou instead of Chinese. In cases like French and Germans in Industrial Era, there is no alternative name, and putting a new culture called like 'Modern' French would be waste of time for devs. And it would look weird if AI picks  a culture called 'Modern' French in Contemporary Era and you continue to play as regular French Culture, it just looks weird.

It is much easier for them to give a unique unit when you transcend as France, but no new culture bonus or no new cultural building. I agree that this gives bonuses to some cultures that lasted more than others, but as I said, biggest issue of Transcending is the 'Transcending' mechanic. Adding 1 extra unique unit or cultures that existed into next era should not be that much game breaking. But if the Devs want to make a new mechanic to add new units in next eras, I don't have any issue. But I think this is the easiest way to implement a new unit without much work.

However, I do agree with you that current transcending mechanic is not fully fleshed out, all I wanted to say is that if an Ottoman player decided to continue as playing as Ottomans in Industrial Era they should have 1 unique unit. This is both easier and looks better than just copy-pasting a civilization that already existed with same name. There is no need to have a culture called 'Contemporary French', when we have 'French' in Industrial Era.

I think we can all agree that the Transcendence mechanic needs some fleshing out but adding additional units to some cultures and not to others is arbitrary. Be it for historical, gameplay, balance reasons - it will be both a bit confusing and also narrowing your options.

Most players tend to stick with cultures/civilizations/races that give them broader options. You will either need to give all cultures the same treatment or find a better way to entice players to go for transcendence. Having different dynasties can actually work - keep the same Emblematic quarter but add a new unit and legacy trait to each dynasty. Thus you still keep a common theme and make the player think about changing their culture or going with the next dynasty.

I do like the current system of swapping cultures as you get to experience different musical scores, various cultures and what not.

I think no extra units….instead just beef up the bonus to 15%-25%

Krikkitone wrote:

I think no extra units….instead just beef up the bonus to 15%-25%

Beefing up to bonus can significantly break the game since some civilizations use transcending option multiple times. The entire mechanic needs a rework, cause you have some cultures that use transcending 1 time only. Other AI personas keep their culture for entire game, so they use it entire game.

In my opinion, it is rather a waste of resources to give transcending cultures any new things to play with, neither units, nor buildings, nor whatever.  The way it is done now, with just extra fame, is quite simple - I can see why some people think that's not interesting enough and feel 'forced' to change. And I agree to some extent: the game is harder (read: feels harder, a fame victory is almost guaranteed), but also much more boring if you play it with your starting culture to the end. But is this really something that needs to be dealt with in such a complicated way? Transcending cultures could come with other benefits thematically fitting additionally to the bonus fame (cheaper civics, bonus stability, etc. once these things are a bit harder to come by), and it would be enough benefit for sure. I think staying your culture should always be the less interesting choice.

The idea discussed here comes with so many problems: it would mean that every culture gets a new unit when transcending to any era, or it would not have sense to it. Rather, give me more cultures to choose from. That's so much simpler to do concept-wise and to implement, while also being way more interesting. Instead of making transcending from early modern Ottomans to industrial Ottomans more interesting, I eventually want to be able to choose Margiana > Huns/Bactria/Sogdia > Rum/Seljuks > Ottomans (transcend) > Turkish or something similar with Hittites, Persians, and Umayyads thrown into the mix. That's much more interesting stuff and choices than inventing Hunnic units for Medieval, Early Modern, Industrial and Contemporary Era in case some wants to transcend.

TurkPasha wrote:

But my question to you and everyone in this forum is, how can devs make cultures such as French, German in Industrial Era more relevant for Contemporary Era? Copy-pasting these cultures for the last era seems like waste of resources and naming will be issue also since no more they can use ideological name like Soviets or dynasty names on these Western European cultures. On the other hand ignoring them in Contemporary Era seems also a huge waste of potential as these cultures were as much as active as they were during Industrial Era. It just seems very odd to me giving option to play as French and Germans and Italians, only to ignore them in the last era (which for most people is the most important era since its when most of the modern-day cultures can get a chance to shine).

I don't think that's necessary. There is an abundance of interesting choices in the Contemporary Era, many of which cannot or hardly be used in previous Eras. The European majors already have many several incarnations in the game, and will maybe get even more eventually. It's fine if they are not available as cultures in the last era in my opinion. I'm sure there will be mods for them as soon as the modding tools are available for the people that can't live without having the 5th Republic or the Third Reich. On the other hand, there is official precedent that two cultures with the same name can be in the game at the same time (Egyptians). Once the game stops to refer to other empires by their culture (hopefully soon), it would also be less confusing to have industrial Italians and a modded Italians from the contemporary era in the same game.

I think you misunderstood me. The devs should do neither, not adding cultures that are already in the industrial era to the contemporary, nor adding units to transcending cultures. They should spend their limited resources on other tasks. Modders can do the rest, and will do, I'm sure of that. So anyone who thinks they are missing a culture can simply get a mod for that. Coding AI preferences by persona is almost impossible, as 99% of these personas made by other players.

I'd be content with some mild buffing done to unique units of cultures that continue into the next era. It does not have to be a new unique unit or promotion, but merely additional strength points to existing unique cultural units to bring them up to average for that new era. Unique cultural districts could be slightly enhanced by one or two units of whatever they produced before, be it food, industry, influence or science.

EQ already get the same benefits as generic quarters of the same type.  EU are usually fine for the next era (and you can keep building them).  Eventually, all units need to get upgraded, EU included.