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Questions about stealth units.

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3 years ago
Oct 8, 2021, 2:09:47 PM

I've played a few games and but have never used any of the stealth units.  I read that the stealth mechanic was broken at the start of the game (AI would see the units on the world map).  However I believe that's been fixed now 


Are the stealth units worth using?

Cam the enter into other cultures without causing a declaration of war?



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3 years ago
Oct 8, 2021, 2:28:06 PM
peter79 wrote:

I've played a few games and but have never used any of the stealth units.  I read that the stealth mechanic was broken at the start of the game (AI would see the units on the world map).  However I believe that's been fixed now 


Are the stealth units worth using?

Cam the enter into other cultures without causing a declaration of war?



No, to the second (and because of that No to the first).  That is the one change that would make them worthwhile 


Also if they were available earlier... say Scouts don't upgrade into Horsemen, but into Classical Era "Spies"...like Scouts but with Stealth that actually works (letting you move through enemy territory)... then let Medieval Sabotuers expend themselves to Ransack a district immediately (if not detected)


[Those also would be some ideal units for Rebellions]


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3 years ago
Oct 8, 2021, 3:56:39 PM

Stealth unit can enter other players borders even if they don't have open borders, but only as long as the stealth unit stay out of sight.

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3 years ago
Oct 8, 2021, 4:05:58 PM
That's not my experience with the Saboteurs (sitting in enemy territory after a war they couldn't move around in there only move out)  [maybe that was prepatch or its bugged.  (Possibly the detected/Stealth status should be better indicated)
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3 years ago
Oct 8, 2021, 4:20:38 PM
Krikkitone wrote:
That's not my experience with the Saboteurs (sitting in enemy territory after a war they couldn't move around in there only move out)  [maybe that was prepatch or its bugged.  (Possibly the detected/Stealth status should be better indicated)

Not tested after war.

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3 years ago
Oct 8, 2021, 5:30:22 PM

i tried them not too long ago and yes you can enter into their territories scout around however when they get spotted by enemy units and felt like the ai knows where i am then you trigger a trespassing grievance and forced to leave with the unit or it was attacked on sight (depends whether you have non agression i guess)


i checked i couldnt ransack that would have required war, however you can zoc from 2 elevation upper if you are lucky thats next to a road :)

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3 years ago
Oct 9, 2021, 6:57:44 AM

Saboteurs work fine in multiplayer. You can enter opponent territory during closed borders. Not 100% certain about AI - if it's able to see stealth units or not. 


There is Authority choice for Ideology, which players never choose. It gives +2 detection range for districts. I get it that Saboteurs become detected at distance 3, not 1. Adding that we can't check an opponnent Ideology, it's hard to say if AI sees not-visible units or simply detects them due Authority.

Updated 3 years ago.
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3 years ago
Oct 10, 2021, 10:04:44 AM

I did a test vs AI again, putting my Saboteur 4 tiles away of any their district. I believe they noticed it immediately. This doesn't always happen though, may be AI not always sends someone to intercept, but in my case it sent someone every time I tried to put my Saboteur at distance of 4.

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3 years ago
Oct 10, 2021, 2:47:02 PM

It's been hit or miss for me, possibly as patches roll out?  Two nights ago I was able to waltz some Partisans into a neighbour's territory without Open Borders or War, and the "Move" command helpfully kept me from moving too close to the foreign districts without declaring war.  I messed up by commanding the Partisan to go through some fog of war, and near an elevated district I wasn't ware of. That empire hit me up with a very expensive trespassing grievance, so it looks on the face of it that stealth was working as expected in that instance?

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3 years ago
Oct 10, 2021, 3:04:37 PM

It happened in the same game, the save version. My spy was statying for dozens of turns in AI territory, but eventually they started attacking him. Whenever he returns back - they attack him again and again. The same time it was still concealed for human player. These 2 territories (AI and human) were adjacent one to another.


It's still possible that a spy has 2 states - like hidden and revealed, but I have no confirmation about that. Pretty unlikely, as my spies were moving on these 2  players territories for may be 100 turns.

Updated 3 years ago.
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3 years ago
Oct 10, 2021, 3:21:05 PM
Krikkitone wrote:

No, to the second (and because of that No to the first).  That is the one change that would make them worthwhile 


I agree with this. 


It has the similar problem with stealth units in endless legend, where (depending on map generation) the target player is able to get vision across their entire boarders to the point that your stealth units can never actually travel into the target empire and go on a pillage spree, at least without declaring war first.


Stealth units don't have the same strength as normal military units seen in the front lines, so it would help if the stealth units fit into a niche role that the other military units can't normally do in peacetime.


Now, would players having the ability to enter into other player's territory and go crazy with invisible pillaging be annoying? Well, I mean, the thievery badge pretty much allows that already, so...



Actually, I just remembered something, I would also be interested in seeing a version of the stealth unit that entirely deletes reinforcements for both sides in battles they are present(alive) in. Delete, in this case, being the word Restrict.

Updated 3 years ago.
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