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Naval units, and naval units vs land units combat

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3 years ago
Mar 15, 2022, 11:44:20 PM

Are naval units ever going to be changed? More specifically, the late-game naval units and the way they interact with land units. 

 

The most glaring issue: land units aren't just comparable to naval units... they're flat out better, and eventually even counter them (???)

Battleship: 59 Strength, 5 Range.

vs

Medium Tank: 61 Strength, 6 Range.


A WW2 tank can fire further than a battleship? And its cannon is more powerful than the entirety of the Battleships full arsenal? The only thing the Battleship has over the Medium Tank is that it is a bombard unit, so it doesn't require line of sight. But that doesn't make up for the nonsense that is this overall match-up. Siege artillery also doesn't require line of sight yet it has the most range out of any land unit (and naval unit for that matter), and it's not like battleships have the combat strength to make up for the fact that they have to get closer.


Moving a little further into the timeline, we have...

Missile Cruiser: 62 Strength (just barely more powerful than a Medium Tank), 5 range.

vs
Main Battle Tank: 69(!!) Strength, 6 Range + Armor Piercing.

A modern MBT not only has more range, more firepower than a military warship that fires long-range missiles, it also gains eight more points of strength when attacking the missile cruiser. ON TOP OF THAT, the missile cruiser, for whatever Godforsaken reason, requires line of sight (??) to attack targets.

 

Listen, I get that once you have aircraft carriers, your naval prowess should be expressed by your long range aircraft strikes. But this is still ridiculous no matter how you look at it. A tank, or any land unit that isn't actually supposed to be attacking a large military vessel, shouldn't be able to do ludicrous amounts of damage while also outranging them. Missile cruisers in Civ 5 actually had a reasonable explanation as to why they were inferior to battleships, their attack animation used their small, ship to ship cannons that aren't generally supposed to be used against heavily armored/long range targets. This is because it's supposed to be offset by the fact that they actually carried the missiles that you can build and were basically mobile missile silos. But in Humankind, the animation actually uses their missiles to strike when they attack... and they can't carry the missiles you build. So why are they so weak?


Also, speaking of aircraft carriers, this is where the other issue I have comes up. Is it intended that aircraft on carriers are forced into some non-material plane of existence when their launch platform is engaged in direct combat? Again, I get that you should be trying to keep your carriers as far away as possible but sometimes they're going to be forced into a battle, and it doesn't make sense for their aircraft to suddenly disappear. I don't know if this behavior is also shared by aerodromes on land, but having an entire stack of units that you took time/gold and population to prepare suddenly disappear just because they happen to be too close to the action doesn't make any sense at all. Aircraft don't suddenly become worthless just because their enemies got a little too close.


I find that late-game combat mechanics/units are often ignored for a very long time or ignored entirely in games like this after they launch... I just really hope that Amplitude actually knows about all of this and is looking into changing a few things. I feel like something as simple as removing the "Armored Vessel" units from the "Armor Piercing" bonus and increasing naval range by 1 to at least put them on the level of the land units would go a long way. Naval units don't have to *dominate* a land battle but it also shouldn't feel like sending your boats a little to close to that one enemy tank is a death sentence.

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3 years ago
Mar 16, 2022, 7:50:10 AM
Are airstrikes into a battlefield even working at all? Last time I checked they showed up but there was no way to execute them. Once that's fixed, I don't think that they should be able to do it with impunity, but maybe have the planes starting from actively engaged carrier take 20 damage upfront. And do something about air experience, because, AFAIK, there seems like there's no way for those units to gain any (at least they don't receive it for bombing runs and I'm 50/50 on interception, because it's hard to find AI utilizing air force).

And I'd say it is running further back, with Carracks folding like wet paper under musket fire and being impotent against land units. I would say that from the advent of canons Naval units *should* dominate land battles - as long as they can actively participate in it, i.e. there's good access from water. If someone wants to counter ships they should either require mass of units or their own fleet, the risk of enemy naval presence should be met with extra preparation not with taking potshots from a cliff at them.

As I see it, land armies are mandatory (for warfare), fleets are extra effort. So the fact that land armies can wipe out fleet makes that extra effort not worth it, considering it's usable only for catching enemy army on sea - and could be spent on land units to actively fight back.
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