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Silk

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Silk is perfectly balanced
Silk needs a massive nerf
I don't care
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3 years ago
Mar 23, 2022, 11:40:00 AM

Silk is a luxury in the game that gives +2 production on makers quarters per Silk


This might not sound problematic to someone that has not played a lot, but in multiplayer games, production dominates everything. 

And makers quarters are what is used to gain production. This leads to the situation that in multiplayer Silk dominates everything, since players need to either secure trades for Silk early or kill the player with silk before the production snowballs out of control.

And dear does it snowball, here is a production statistic of a game with a silk start on normal speed. 356 districts were built by the player that had silk, over 250 were makers quarters. This leads to a situation where a player has enough production that he can one turn a mars colony or any amount of army. There is no counter to this, except killing who ever spawn at the silk early. How would silk be balanced best?
 

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3 years ago
Mar 25, 2022, 6:09:22 PM

So, what is silk?

By the ever changing Google: 

  • Silk is a protein fiber, of which specific instances can be turned into textiles. Textile compatible silk being known to be...fiscally produced by Organic life, some of which are called Silk Worms.
Then, what was silk used for?
From Google:
  • It [silk fabric] became a staple source of income for small farmers and, as weaving techniques improved, the reputation of Chinese silk spread so that it became highly desired across the empires of the ancient world.
To summarize:
  • Silk, as a luxury, is a manufactured Fabric which became popular and sought after enough that small farmers used it as a significant form of income.

So here are possible solutions in order to balance silk in HUMANKIND:
  • Make silk give +1 money on farmers quarters per silk trade route on cities.
It entirely takes away the industrial gains a min/maxing player can do in order to recreate the pictured graph above, by making silk not do anything directly for industry; while keeping to the spirit of what real life used silk for. This is a, arguably, quick  and reasonable solution to the stated problem--without relying on scorch earth suggestions.

The scorched earth suggestion:
  •  Make non industrial infrastructures, the merchant quarter, and military units all only use monetary income as its industry... instead of industry; meaning that monetary income dictates how quickly such things can be produced by the city. 
This suggestion would potentially solve the silk issue, by making it so that it is near useless for military operations and a significant amount of city improving.
Updated 3 years ago.
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3 years ago
Apr 6, 2022, 5:21:50 AM

I agree, replacing it's buff compleatly might be the way to go.


Current bonus just causes a too big Problem

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3 years ago
Apr 6, 2022, 10:35:10 PM

Kudos @komodowaran, for pointing this out!  It's an element contributing to imbalance that I doubt I would ever have noticed.  I think many regular players see how trade can snowball your game.  But I've rarely seen a granular look at which luxuries are the most over-powered.  Nicely done!


This is tangential, but I think it suggests a related, but separate, discussion about whether all OP luxuries should be nerfed.  And, as I write this, I can think of arguments NOT to go too far that way. In the real world, there are certain luxuries or resources that are of much greater strategic or economic value than others.  To name a few:  Oil, gold, and diamonds.  And...nations do fight and maneuver to control them.  That sounds like an interesting element to retain.

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3 years ago
Apr 6, 2022, 10:41:06 PM

Yes, the current Soft Power dynamic of trade providing strong boosts, yet crippling to the player when it’s used as a weapon through tariff enforcement in Crisis events and or players refusing to trade, thus forcing the player to enforce a response or make their empire become independent of trade, is something I do wish this game doesn’t lose.

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3 years ago
Apr 14, 2022, 2:50:26 PM

Changlini wrote:

Yes, the current Soft Power dynamic of trade providing strong boosts, yet crippling to the player when it’s used as a weapon through tariff enforcement in Crisis events and or players refusing to trade, thus forcing the player to enforce a response or make their empire become independent of trade, is something I do wish this game doesn’t lose.

I agree completely and believe for a strategy game it's fun, challenging and realistic to have such powerful and strategically-crucial-to-control resources. These are the elements that make trading, diplomacy and war worthwhile endeavours to deal with.

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3 years ago
Apr 17, 2022, 3:22:04 PM

Have never had an issue with silk at humankind difficulty against the AI but have never played multiplayer.


If I am interpreting the chart correctly there is a 60K production jump in roughly 40 turns and the 4th era is completed in approximately 5 turns at normal speed?


Just curious, does controlling silk always result in snowballing like this in multiplayer?


Thinking about getting into multiplayer but if the only viable strategy to win an unmodded game is max production and control silk, I would rather stick with playing the AI till the mechanic is adjusted or maybe try the spread luxuries mod as suggested above.

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3 years ago
Apr 17, 2022, 5:19:56 PM

Yes, the chart is quite vague in the nuances that goes into production income, and is--when combined with this thread's thesis--attempting to convince us all that Komodowaran only got to those production numbers because of silk alone.

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3 years ago
Apr 18, 2022, 3:04:07 PM

In Multiplayer u will see most citys consisting to 50% or more out of makers quarters


Since makers quarters  on the silk continent get +12 production from 6 silk, the empires with acces to silk dominate in multiplayer games


Updated 3 years ago.
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