I dont want to sound negative. But I am genuinely frustrated by this. I played all the endless games, and Humankind is supposed to build on everything that came before. 

Humankind should improve upon systems already done before. I should not be here asking for older systems to make it to Humankind. :/ 

Why is combat worse than Endless Legend ?

Why is the law system worse than Endless Space 2 ?

Why is there no spying when Endless Legend had them ? 

Why is there no party system like in Endless Space 2 ?

Why is the ai worse than Endless Legend ?

Why is exploration worse than Endless Legend ? (steal ideas from Gladius Relics of War, a w40k game done by 5 people, it has great exploration and early game)

Why is diplomacy done worse than Endless Space 1 ?

Why does pollution make no changes to the map, when Endless Legend changed the map when winter came ? 

Why does this game after 2 DLCs, still feel unfinished ? 

What happened to the devs who made the Endless games ? Did they just leave ? 

Is Humankind made by devs whos first game ever is Humankind ? 

(p.s. I cant make avatars in this game. I reinstalled it 3 times and the options to customize the avatar just do not appear in my game. Wonder if it will ever be fixed) 

Sorry for the negativity, but it is so frustrating. 

Covid + Lack of time ?

Arphenix wrote:

Covid + Lack of time ?

Then where did they find time for 2 paid DLCs?

A lot of it is 'because instead of fantastic, largely monolithic empires they needed something relatively vague fitting a run through societies across human history'.

Aside of that, I only really agree on spying and I imagine that's because devs want to cook something unique via expansion, although I can't say I'd be happy about this decision. Could be better if we'd at least have functional stealth units, instead of current stump of an idea.

Pollution does cause changes to the map, providing high enough levels, the world starts looking bleak and dead. I think the polluted territories also start getting covered with smoke? Not sure about that one, I tend to avoid getting too much pollution.

ArcaniteM wrote:

I dont want to sound negative. 

Failed!

To answer your rhetorical questions as much as I can:

1. Combat is one of the strong point of the game in my opinion. I did not had time to delve much into EL but it is far simplier. Humankind combat system might require some balancing, which is tough considering its scope.
2. I seem to have missed the law system in Humankind... Do you compare the civics, made to represent a system evoluting with time, to the quite frozen time of ES2? The law system in ES2 is also pretty weak und unbalanced.
3. EL spying system came with the Forgotten if I'm right.
4. What do you mean by „party system“?
5. I'm lacking experience to compare the EL AI with Humankind's. I'd make the complexity of the one from the latter as a good reason.
6. I do not find exploration better in EL.
7. I'm also lacking experience of ES1 to make a just comparison but I recall reading not so long ago, that in ES1 the AI, regardless of factions, waged wars too easily.
8. The pollution system is a complex one, affectiong more things than only the map, but I'm pretty sure there are changes and also more to come.

You are comparing full fleshed games, with many DLC (if not all are directly game related, I've 12 for EL and 17 for ES2) and years to produce all that to game launched less than a year ago. I'm pretty sure most of the time went into balancing more than producing more content but it is also clear that the reception is now improving with updates. The DLC were meant to offer more variety, not more depth and, frankly, I'm not sure the „Dark Matter“ ES2 or the bigger „Penumbra“ (oh, a bad spying system) and „Awakening“ were better than any of those two.

You seem to forget also all the differences and everything that is better. Plus, a game set up in our „universe“ asks for more complicated representation that a made up one.

I don't know if some devs left the team but I'm pretty happy with what they made. I tried to play a bit of EL and found it meh compared to Humankind (I may need to delve a bit deeper but it's tough going into the water).

I'd suggest to open another thread for your technical question, you may receive help faster.

I wish a very pleasant day

For sure number 5. is laughable at best. I played EL on launch and it had NO AI. As in the AI empires did not know how to play themselves and tried to play everything as if they were all a generic race with no special traits. 

Even now the AI is extremely weak and only really excels when accompanied by ELCP which is not developed by Amplitude but by the time-consuming work of LeaderEnemyBoss. I'm trying to find out where he even came up with that one.

Slashman wrote:

For sure number 5. is laughable at best. I played EL on launch and it had NO AI. As in the AI empires did not know how to play themselves and tried to play everything as if they were all a generic race with no special traits. 

Even now the AI is extremely weak and only really excels when accompanied by ELCP which is not developed by Amplitude but by the time-consuming work of LeaderEnemyBoss. I'm trying to find out where he even came up with that one.

I only started playing Endless Legend when the ocean dlc came out. The ai was good by then. 

Cure_off wrote:

ArcaniteM wrote:

I dont want to sound negative. 

Failed!

To answer your rhetorical questions as much as I can:

1. Combat is one of the strong point of the game in my opinion. I did not had time to delve much into EL but it is far simplier. Humankind combat system might require some balancing, which is tough considering its scope.
2. I seem to have missed the law system in Humankind... Do you compare the civics, made to represent a system evoluting with time, to the quite frozen time of ES2? The law system in ES2 is also pretty weak und unbalanced.
3. EL spying system came with the Forgotten if I'm right.
4. What do you mean by „party system“?
5. I'm lacking experience to compare the EL AI with Humankind's. I'd make the complexity of the one from the latter as a good reason.
6. I do not find exploration better in EL.
7. I'm also lacking experience of ES1 to make a just comparison but I recall reading not so long ago, that in ES1 the AI, regardless of factions, waged wars too easily.
8. The pollution system is a complex one, affectiong more things than only the map, but I'm pretty sure there are changes and also more to come.

You are comparing full fleshed games, with many DLC (if not all are directly game related, I've 12 for EL and 17 for ES2) and years to produce all that to game launched less than a year ago. I'm pretty sure most of the time went into balancing more than producing more content but it is also clear that the reception is now improving with updates. The DLC were meant to offer more variety, not more depth and, frankly, I'm not sure the „Dark Matter“ ES2 or the bigger „Penumbra“ (oh, a bad spying system) and „Awakening“ were better than any of those two.

You seem to forget also all the differences and everything that is better. Plus, a game set up in our „universe“ asks for more complicated representation that a made up one.

I don't know if some devs left the team but I'm pretty happy with what they made. I tried to play a bit of EL and found it meh compared to Humankind (I may need to delve a bit deeper but it's tough going into the water).

I'd suggest to open another thread for your technical question, you may receive help faster.

I wish a very pleasant day

Well thank you for the pleasant day, wish you the same. 

1. I dont see how the combat is different from Endless Legend. It seems to be almost the same. But less, since in EL you can equip different gear to change the abilities on your units and use spells if you play different factions. So it has more going on. 

2. Yes, but it is fun. Something like that combined with different gouvernment types would have been great. Maybe democracy lets your people choose the civic.

3. Yes, it came with the shadow guys. Humankind can use "saboteur" unit to spy on the enemy instead of heroes. 

4. The political parties, ecologists / industrialists, etc. 

6. Why not ? You have minor factions that you can do diplomacy with. (the minor civs in Humankind act like barbarians) You have points of interest to explore, During winter you gather pearls, etc. 

7. Well I used ES1 just to show how inferior the diplomacy is in Humankind. Because EL and ES2, both built upon that system and improved it. Only Humankind for some reason went backwards. 

"You are comparing full fleshed games, with many DLC " 

No, I am not, I am really not. ES2 released with better features and in a more complete state. 

ES2 released with: minor factions / space and ground combat / good diplomacy / gouvernment systems with laws and voting and partys / fewer bugs and so on 

By the time it reached its second DLC, the game had: fighters / refined systems / pirate diplomacy system / giant space stations (obliterators) / and others more smaller improvements.

The DLCs were addind new factions and NEW systems to the game. 

Humankind is still trying to refine its base systems. We are far away from having new stuff. 

The problem is that all these base systems were done before, by this studio. They could just port them in and refine from there. EL is quite close in design to Humankind. 

I want Humankind to build upon what the other games started. But it doesnt. Not yet. 

DNLH wrote:

Aside of that, I only really agree on spying and I imagine that's because devs want to cook something unique via expansion, although I can't say I'd be happy about this decision. Could be better if we'd at least have functional stealth units, instead of current stump of an idea.

Pollution does cause changes to the map, providing high enough levels, the world starts looking bleak and dead. I think the polluted territories also start getting covered with smoke? Not sure about that one, I tend to avoid getting too much pollution.

I agree the stealth in Humankind just doesnt work. Because of the turns being symultanious, the enemy will always bump into your stealth units by accident. 

If it was a normal turn base game, you could move your unit so it doesnt get discovered. It makes the saboteur and submarines useless. 

"Pollution does cause changes to the map" Really ? Is it a option in the meniu I might have missed ? 

I played many games where it ended because of high pollution. Aside from events, I never saw anything change. Thats why the end came as a surprise every time. The wather looks the same, areas are just as green, sky is clear. 

Cure_off wrote:

So, you started playing it more than two years after launch, with three DLC?

Ya EL, Mandalore did a video on it. 

Endless Space 2, I got since launch. And before launch is when I played Endless Space1. 

Humankind is far away from its launch. 17 Aug, 2021 

At this point Cyberpunk 2077 might get fixed sooner. :P 

ArcaniteM wrote:
I played many games where it ended because of high pollution. Aside from events, I never saw anything change. Thats why the end came as a surprise every time. The wather looks the same, areas are just as green, sky is clear.

That sounds weird, the one game I did hit high levels of pollution (way, way back, a couple of months after the launch, because ever since the update that made Nature Reserves lower it, at least on Endless, it became much more manageable) the difference was visible, even it was "just" colours becoming desaturated and air becoming slightly foggy. The difference wasn't big, but it did feel like the planet wasn't in a good spot.

Cure_off wrote:

1. The map is better in Humankind. It's a lot more enjoyable to explore it than EL.
2. My comment was pointing the lack of sense of the ES1 diplomacy. It is also quite weak in ES2. Interesting diplomacy only exist when you're playing other humans.

In ES2, you got:

1. No equivalent to neolithic
2. No fame
3. No civics
4. No real combat system
5. No equivalent to territory management
6. No possibility to affect the map (districts)
7. No pollution system
8. No real diplomacy, with the AI or the pirates
9. still bugs (have you played the Dark Matter DLC?)
10. No Isyander
11. No bad „hacking“ time consuming, only very interesting for one faction mechanic
12. No wonder locking system,
13. No shared projects
14. Better balance between the cultures (HK) than betwextensivelyeen the factions (ES2)
15. Way less content
16. etc.

I played a bit of ES2 and know enough of the game to make a fair comparison.
There are better things in ES2 but I'd have pinpoint other things, like the better trade system.

I feel you're missing also the idea that Humankind had to not be a reshaped EL in a „realistic universe“.

I should not have stepped into this conversation... but well, enjoy EL and ES2 and I still wish ya a very pleasant day

Why do you find the exploration in Humankind to be better ? What do you like about it ?

It doesnt have points of interests, quests, minor factions. So why ?

I dont find the diplomacy in ES 1 to be lacking. You can: trade resources, give money to people, ask them to join a war, they can ask you to join a war, trade regions.

It has everything from Humankind, plus more. 

1. Okay, no neolitic, but it only lasts for like 2 min on medium speed. You can refuse to make a city in EL to get the neolitic experience if you rly want. And just explore. 

2. You have fame in all the Endless games, its called "score points". And you have "score victory". 

3. You have civics in ES2, they are called laws. And you get a more dinamic system along side them. 

4. Fair, its automated. But EL has a combat system. 

5. You have the same teritory management in EL and ES2, only better because all the luxury resources serve a game mechanic, instead of just being passives.

6. You do, in EL. In ES2 the districts are called planets. With a system being a "zone" or "teritory" in Humankind. 

7. If you count the winter in EL and the world destruction via war or cravers, they do have something similar. And both have a visual so you can see the difference. Instead of just events and resources going down. 

8. "No real diplomacy, with the AI or the pirates" No, you do have diplomacy, very good diplomacy. The ai is very cool with each faction being a character. Even pirates have diplomacy. 

9./ 10. I have no idea what the Dark Matter DLC even does. Cuz it doesnt work. The academy still makes the game unplayable because of last DLC.

11. Yes I do find hacking unoriginal, but I find it a essencial addon. Just not a great implementation of the system. 

12. Well the wonders are rewards, they exist to reward builder playstyle. 

13. True

14. Well the cultures in Humankind are just different flavors of the same culture. The ones in ES2 are unique from each other. Harder to balance. 

15. No way Endless Space 2 has less content than Humankind. I am sure this one is just a tease :)) 

It doesnt have to be a Endless legend, but history. But boy it would sure be nice if it had the game mechanics as well done or as many as EL. 

DNLH wrote:

That sounds weird, the one game I did hit high levels of pollution (way, way back, a couple of months after the launch, because ever since the update that made Nature Reserves lower it, at least on Endless, it became much more manageable) the difference was visible, even it was "just" colours becoming desaturated and air becoming slightly foggy. The difference wasn't big, but it did feel like the planet wasn't in a good spot.

I would LOVE if the pollution made "was "just" colours becoming desaturated and air becoming slightly foggy. The difference wasn't big, but it did feel like the planet wasn't in a good spot. " I just never saw any changes. 

Thats why I said, it might be a option in the menu I just never enabled or something. I will play another game today to see. I will also look at Jumbo Pixel video challenge he did on pollution. Just to see what it looks like. 

ArcaniteM wrote:

Slashman wrote:

For sure number 5. is laughable at best. I played EL on launch and it had NO AI. As in the AI empires did not know how to play themselves and tried to play everything as if they were all a generic race with no special traits. 

Even now the AI is extremely weak and only really excels when accompanied by ELCP which is not developed by Amplitude but by the time-consuming work of LeaderEnemyBoss. I'm trying to find out where he even came up with that one.

I only started playing Endless Legend when the ocean dlc came out. The ai was good by then. 

No...no it wasn't. SOME races were passable but many of the races with exotic traits were all very weak and that continued right up until ELCP came out. Before that I could easily beat the AI on the hardest level with a bit of careful playing. After ELCP came out, hard was a challenge for me. Amplitude had long since stopped working on big AI changes.