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Suggestion: don't update the regular units' art/assets when switching culture

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2 years ago
Aug 30, 2022, 12:09:43 AM

I've only noticed it recently (haven't played in long time) but, say you're playing the Mississippians and have build some knights. During the medieval era they look like Mississippians knights... but then, if you switch to the Edo Japanese next, all of those Mississippians knights are now using the Japanese/Asian assets. 


It's like suddenly the entire population of your civilization has been replaced. 


I think it would be more interesting if those units assets/art where determined by the choices you make at the ancient era, it would feel a lot more like you're really creating a unique "what if" culture with an actual continuity.

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2 years ago
Aug 30, 2022, 3:34:37 AM

This is a known bug where the art/square-icons always adapt to match your current culture even when the models remain "correct" for the culture you had that was appropriate for that unit (in your example, your Mississippian knights should retain their "American" models even though the artwork becomes "East Asian").  I think the devs are working on it, but have said it's a complicated bug to squash.  I'm looking forward to it because it will help give us that "what if", evolving, cosmopolitan culture.


You can also see this bug when you hire mercenaries; their icons immediately update to your empire's current culture despite being on loan from another's.

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2 years ago
Aug 30, 2022, 8:34:43 AM

To be honest, I'd prefer if those knights kept using American artwork and models, but new ones, built by Edo Japanese, should use Asian assets. And then maybe give us a button akin to one with City Centers that allows unification of army's looks (bonus points if you could do this on per army basis, using any culture the individual units come from, so you could have Edo Japanese with a single army utilizing European assets, because they were Celtic Gaesati all those centuries ago).


I'm just not sure how resource intensive would be keeping track of culture of every individual unit, though. But it would help with the HK's culture idea, they were aiming at culture mixing and yet the way everything just snaps to right place at the start of an era makes it more like culture swapping, which is a bit less exciting. I think it would be really worth it to have more visual cues that tell you the Edo Japanese you are playing as now aren't the same Edo Japanese you played as last time.

Updated 2 years ago.
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2 years ago
Aug 31, 2022, 5:19:55 PM
DNLH wrote:


I'm just not sure how resource intensive would be keeping track of culture of every individual unit, though. But it would help with the HK's culture idea, they were aiming at culture mixing and yet the way everything just snaps to right place at the start of an era makes it more like culture swapping, which is a bit less exciting. I think it would be really worth it to have more visual cues that tell you the Edo Japanese you are playing as now aren't the same Edo Japanese you played as last time.

Toning down the visual culture pivot would do a lot for immersion, but any solution would be a) difficult to convey, and b) have some edge cases that are culturally insensitive. Suppose unit art was procedurally modified, so that aesthetically each unit will individually piecewise transition to the new culture based on some location criteria (stability, culture influence, etc). That would be a good way to add some religious paraphernalia to the units, too.


That's the aesthetic side, regarding physical appearance the game could assign an initial appearance to each player in Neolithic (based on avatars or start location), and then use this instead of massively pivoting each era. The game would simulate (under the hood) each city's composition, which depends on several conditions (relations with neighbors, original and current owner of city, location since New World cities are made up "of local stock") and can change/converge organically. Spawned units will randomly be given traits based on this (and other artwork can adapt it as well).


They'll never do this of course, because some really specific combination will look like blackface or whitewashing or something. Which is probably fair. The game's not "alternate history" enough to pull that off. It's also a crapton of work to make modular procedural art look good.

Updated 2 years ago.
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2 years ago
Aug 31, 2022, 7:37:20 PM
SpacesuitSpiff wrote:
They'll never do this of course, because some really specific combination will look like blackface or whitewashing or something. Which is probably fair. The game's not "alternate history" enough to pull that off. It's also a crapton of work to make modular procedural art look good.

Good portion of your soldiers already take the appearance of your avatar skin- and hair-wise, so there's that (although I think at least some units are exception to this). But yeah, I don't really think making every unit model modular is something feasible.

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2 years ago
Aug 31, 2022, 7:53:07 PM
DNLH wrote:
Good portion of your soldiers already take the appearance of your avatar skin- and hair-wise, so there's that (although I think at least some units are exception to this)

They do?!  I thought my generic unit models just looked like their culture (and emblematic units had a single look to them).  I haven't particularly noticed them following my avatar's colouration.

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2 years ago
Aug 31, 2022, 8:55:42 PM

It's not always easy to see, but my avatar is dark-skinned with light hair, so it's rather obvious when the units take her look. I think Tribes and EQs are exception to the rule, not sure about styles added with the DLC packs either.


This is what we know from the dev's words.

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2 years ago
Sep 1, 2022, 2:55:30 AM

Hm that's neat. The fact that most never notice that is a good argument for why the devs should never do my idea.

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