Would it be possible to construct districts on the water in later eras besides the harbors, such as maybe high-end waterborne apartments (like in the city of Monaco), fish farms, tidal power plants, etc? It'd make the coasts useful for more than trade and military travel.

Why stop there, go full alpha centauri and allow Ocean cities and ocean improvements

CaptainCobbs wrote:

Why stop there, go full alpha centauri and allow Ocean cities and ocean improvements

This would build up to that perhaps being a DLC, was my thought process.

could also be a mod

im sure there will be harbors and the like (cant have a historical 4x without navy)

but building floating cities? Maybe a bit too niche for basegame integration.

That's fair, it would be a neat addition for sure, but it makes more thematic sense when you are colonizing an alien planet with the best technology available.

HappyHead wrote:

could also be a mod

im sure there will be harbors and the like (cant have a historical 4x without navy)

but building floating cities? Maybe a bit too niche for basegame integration.

This is too big for a mod, and yes there's already harbors confirmed.

CaptainCobbs wrote:

That's fair, it would be a neat addition for sure, but it makes more thematic sense when you are colonizing an alien planet with the best technology available.

Yes, except the idea can be done on Earth, so why not do it before interplanetary colonization?

The game ends in the Modern Era, right? Seasteads or whatever haven't been successfully done yet.

If the game ends in the Modern Era, we can forget about ozean cities. But I would really like the idea to use your coastal area in more ways than you can usually do.

I just want some gameplay and more information... I hate it to be that hyped for a game, when it still takes about a year to release.

They could go the EL Tempest expansion route and add some exploitable nodes on the water for oil platforms, fishing and other natural ressources. Also oceans could be regions like in Tempest and they could be claimed as territory.

The foundation is allready there.

I think it doesn't make sense to have actual waterborne districts outside of ports and docks and all that, but what I do think could be cool is exploiting the ocean from the land, as well as disputes over it . Like how British fishing towns kinda died after the British lost the Cod wars. Imagine stuff like that in-game. And without physical structures (ignoring oil platforms which would come pretty late anyway) , territorial rights over water could be really dynamic.

Sinnatio wrote:

I think it doesn't make sense to have actual waterborne districts outside of ports and docks and all that, but what I do think could be cool is exploiting the ocean from the land, as well as disputes over it . Like how British fishing towns kinda died after the British lost the Cod wars. Imagine stuff like that in-game. And without physical structures (ignoring oil platforms which would come pretty late anyway) , territorial rights over water could be really dynamic.

Such as a body of water a nation controls (like those in Tempest) giving buffs to coastal exploitations and harbor districts in adjacent cities?

The problem is that we won't find many examples of ocean districts before modern times. So yeah, it's essentially harbours, since the seas were exploited by mobile boats, except for a few cultures that had floating fishing villages.

More recently though we could have more things, such as oil or wind platforms, aquacultures and such. The rest is too futuristic for a game ending in the modern era.

The thing is that in human history so far, the ocean isn't a place where you build things that don't move, it's a place for trade routes, exploration and exploitation. Fishing means sending people sometimes very far away to find fish, which is a very different way to produce food compared to farming for instance. I'm not sure it's worth representing through gameplay, but it is indeed quite dynamic even when it's not (just) about trade.

Ezumiyr wrote:

Fishing means sending people sometimes very far away to find fish, which is a very different way to produce food compared to farming for instance.

Huh. That would be actually cool. We already know they have things like mammoths and other animals to hunt in the early game, wouldn't it be cool if fishing boats could see and engage in "combat" with schools of fish that gave the boat a resource that can be brought back to a port city to give a bonus in food? With later techs you could start hunting whales with greater ease. Since there is a limited pool of fish available and it only replenishes slowly, it can eventually lead to over fishing, and since it is a limited resource cultures could clash over "fishing rights".

Also, you could have smuggler units that have really weak combat strength but are both harder to see and can conduct "missions" upon reaching an enemy shore, mostly selling contrabrand that both decreases stability in the region and give you gold based on how low the stability alread is.

Dinode wrote:

Ezumiyr wrote:

Fishing means sending people sometimes very far away to find fish, which is a very different way to produce food compared to farming for instance.

Huh. That would be actually cool. We already know they have things like mammoths and other animals to hunt in the early game, wouldn't it be cool if fishing boats could see and engage in "combat" with schools of fish that gave the boat a resource that can be brought back to a port city to give a bonus in food? With later techs you could start hunting whales with greater ease. Since there is a limited pool of fish available and it only replenishes slowly, it can eventually lead to over fishing, and since it is a limited resource cultures could clash over "fishing rights".

Also, you could have smuggler units that have really weak combat strength but are both harder to see and can conduct "missions" upon reaching an enemy shore, mostly selling contrabrand that both decreases stability in the region and give you gold based on how low the stability alread is.

Agreed about the ocean resources.  Like @Ezumiyr described, I've always disagreed with how the Civ series extends your influence over ocean tiles the same way it extends your influence over land tiles.  The Grand Banks off Newfoundland were one of the key resources drawing Europeans to North America, and were fished by multiple different countries simultaneously.  Many of the first European settlements in Canada were driven by a desire to avoid the long trip back and forth each year; some fisherman started setting up camps on land which eventually became their full time residences.  The city of St. John's, for example, started off that way.  If there are ocean resources in HK (fish, whales, etc.), then the ability to exploit them should be based on your ocean going technology.

In many 4X games, water tiles are useless, boring tiles since we humankind live on lands. Civ6 tried to improve this situation by water resource, improvements, and waterpark. For Endless Legand, it is tempest.

Personally my favorite solution is the one Civ: rising tide. The future technologies allow players to build cities on the seas, and sea resources are no less then land resources. By doing so the oceans becomes alive.

However we wont be able to see it in humankind unless amplitude creates a "future" in the coming dlc. (For certain, I will buy it when pre-order!)

tomsonhagen wrote:

If the game ends in the Modern Era, we can forget about ozean cities. But I would really like the idea to use your coastal area in more ways than you can usually do.

I just want some gameplay and more information... I hate it to be that hyped for a game, when it still takes about a year to release.

No one love to wait lol

Bigben wrote:

In many 4X games, water tiles are useless, boring tiles since we humankind live on lands. Civ6 tried to improve this situation by water resource, improvements, and waterpark. For Endless Legand, it is tempest.

Personally my favorite solution is the one Civ: rising tide. The future technologies allow players to build cities on the seas, and sea resources are no less then land resources. By doing so the oceans becomes alive.

However we wont be able to see it in humankind unless amplitude creates a "future" in the coming dlc. (For certain, I will buy it when pre-order!)

Well, maybe a "hypothetical" bunch of cultures could be added for a future era, if they're open to making the game partially sci-fi.

ImperatorTempus42 wrote:

Bigben wrote:

In many 4X games, water tiles are useless, boring tiles since we humankind live on lands. Civ6 tried to improve this situation by water resource, improvements, and waterpark. For Endless Legand, it is tempest.

Personally my favorite solution is the one Civ: rising tide. The future technologies allow players to build cities on the seas, and sea resources are no less then land resources. By doing so the oceans becomes alive.

However we wont be able to see it in humankind unless amplitude creates a "future" in the coming dlc. (For certain, I will buy it when pre-order!)

Well, maybe a "hypothetical" bunch of cultures could be added for a future era, if they're open to making the game partially sci-fi.

I believe their target "cut off" is 2020 to 2030.  So just enough into the future that "near possible" techs could be included, but presumably nothing too far fetched.

TravlingCanuck wrote:

ImperatorTempus42 wrote:

Bigben wrote:

In many 4X games, water tiles are useless, boring tiles since we humankind live on lands. Civ6 tried to improve this situation by water resource, improvements, and waterpark. For Endless Legand, it is tempest.

Personally my favorite solution is the one Civ: rising tide. The future technologies allow players to build cities on the seas, and sea resources are no less then land resources. By doing so the oceans becomes alive.

However we wont be able to see it in humankind unless amplitude creates a "future" in the coming dlc. (For certain, I will buy it when pre-order!)

Well, maybe a "hypothetical" bunch of cultures could be added for a future era, if they're open to making the game partially sci-fi.

I believe their target "cut off" is 2020 to 2030.  So just enough into the future that "near possible" techs could be included, but presumably nothing too far fetched.

Indeed it is, although the Dutch right now are making islands and IIRC are also pushing their coastline into the sea, which Civ: Beyond Earth's Rising Tide expansion based its aquatic cities on. So, the potential is there if we're talking a decade or two into the future, maybe.

I was thinking, maybe a similar system to the fortresses in the EL tempest expansion could be put in place as single tile islands/ atolls? So while large archipelagos like the Phillipines or Indonesia could still exist as regions you can settle, there would also be single-tile islands that aren't exactly settled but can grant control over an ocean region, or at least give a zone of control around it. Think places like Okinawa, Guam, the Canary Islands, or the Maldives, which can't support a large population but can support a military base or trading post. These islands would start off as neutral, like the Fomorians but replaced by native islanders, and could later spawn roving armies of pirates that would attack trade routes in neutral waters. They could be pacified and claimed by naval units, but would need a special project in one of your cities to build a naval base to properly claim the atoll and some surrounding ocean tiles. This would then grant a bonus of some sort to your naval units in the region.

I like the underwater base in James Bond ' the spy who loved me`. How about evil masterminds in the late games and however beats one gets a technologie of him/her/it ?                                An underwaterbase could be one of it, a moon base wouldproberbly be over the top.

Maybe in the Modern Era, we can build Sea World Districts? :P

grug wrote:

I was thinking, maybe a similar system to the fortresses in the EL tempest expansion could be put in place as single tile islands/ atolls? So while large archipelagos like the Phillipines or Indonesia could still exist as regions you can settle, there would also be single-tile islands that aren't exactly settled but can grant control over an ocean region, or at least give a zone of control around it. Think places like Okinawa, Guam, the Canary Islands, or the Maldives, which can't support a large population but can support a military base or trading post. These islands would start off as neutral, like the Fomorians but replaced by native islanders, and could later spawn roving armies of pirates that would attack trade routes in neutral waters. They could be pacified and claimed by naval units, but would need a special project in one of your cities to build a naval base to properly claim the atoll and some surrounding ocean tiles. This would then grant a bonus of some sort to your naval units in the region.

This sounds promising. We do know that such bases were critical resupply points for various factions, so claiming a region of ocean by building a base on them makes sense. What tech level would you need to claim them, and how do they change as the eras advance?

Dinode wrote:

grug wrote:

I was thinking, maybe a similar system to the fortresses in the EL tempest expansion could be put in place as single tile islands/ atolls? So while large archipelagos like the Phillipines or Indonesia could still exist as regions you can settle, there would also be single-tile islands that aren't exactly settled but can grant control over an ocean region, or at least give a zone of control around it. Think places like Okinawa, Guam, the Canary Islands, or the Maldives, which can't support a large population but can support a military base or trading post. These islands would start off as neutral, like the Fomorians but replaced by native islanders, and could later spawn roving armies of pirates that would attack trade routes in neutral waters. They could be pacified and claimed by naval units, but would need a special project in one of your cities to build a naval base to properly claim the atoll and some surrounding ocean tiles. This would then grant a bonus of some sort to your naval units in the region.

This sounds promising. We do know that such bases were critical resupply points for various factions, so claiming a region of ocean by building a base on them makes sense. What tech level would you need to claim them, and how do they change as the eras advance?

If they were far from the shore you would need compass at least to access them, although there could be some islands (like in the Caribbean or Mediterranean) located on relatively shallow seas accessible early on. Maybe a Polynesian or Viking faction could also have a head start in trying to capture these atolls, or the Polynesians could get special buildings or bonuses from them, like building a moai instead of a trading post. And in the modern era, maybe the military bases on atolls could be used to build air strips, allowing for an island-hopping campaign like WWII?

Any pirates in the ocean regions would probably be at about the average tech level of the world, so their tech would advance similarly. As in our world, I would expect most small islands to be claimed by the end of the industrial era, although if there were pirates using battleships or something maybe they could be like the pirates in Captain Phillips.

grug wrote:

Dinode wrote:

grug wrote:

I was thinking, maybe a similar system to the fortresses in the EL tempest expansion could be put in place as single tile islands/ atolls? So while large archipelagos like the Phillipines or Indonesia could still exist as regions you can settle, there would also be single-tile islands that aren't exactly settled but can grant control over an ocean region, or at least give a zone of control around it. Think places like Okinawa, Guam, the Canary Islands, or the Maldives, which can't support a large population but can support a military base or trading post. These islands would start off as neutral, like the Fomorians but replaced by native islanders, and could later spawn roving armies of pirates that would attack trade routes in neutral waters. They could be pacified and claimed by naval units, but would need a special project in one of your cities to build a naval base to properly claim the atoll and some surrounding ocean tiles. This would then grant a bonus of some sort to your naval units in the region.

This sounds promising. We do know that such bases were critical resupply points for various factions, so claiming a region of ocean by building a base on them makes sense. What tech level would you need to claim them, and how do they change as the eras advance?

If they were far from the shore you would need compass at least to access them, although there could be some islands (like in the Caribbean or Mediterranean) located on relatively shallow seas accessible early on. Maybe a Polynesian or Viking faction could also have a head start in trying to capture these atolls, or the Polynesians could get special buildings or bonuses from them, like building a moai instead of a trading post. And in the modern era, maybe the military bases on atolls could be used to build air strips, allowing for an island-hopping campaign like WWII?

Any pirates in the ocean regions would probably be at about the average tech level of the world, so their tech would advance similarly. As in our world, I would expect most small islands to be claimed by the end of the industrial era, although if there were pirates using battleships or something maybe they could be like the pirates in Captain Phillips.

By that you mean Somali pirates, yes? They're not really at a modern tech level aside from having speedboats, and pirates only really exist off that coastline in today's world.

Not really, there are pirates in other places.

ImperatorTempus42 wrote:

grug wrote:

Dinode wrote:

grug wrote:

I was thinking, maybe a similar system to the fortresses in the EL tempest expansion could be put in place as single tile islands/ atolls? So while large archipelagos like the Phillipines or Indonesia could still exist as regions you can settle, there would also be single-tile islands that aren't exactly settled but can grant control over an ocean region, or at least give a zone of control around it... These islands would start off as neutral, like the Fomorians but replaced by native islanders, and could later spawn roving armies of pirates that would attack trade routes in neutral waters. They could be pacified and claimed by naval units, but would need a special project in one of your cities to build a naval base to properly claim the atoll and some surrounding ocean tiles...

This sounds promising. We do know that such bases were critical resupply points for various factions, so claiming a region of ocean by building a base on them makes sense. What tech level would you need to claim them, and how do they change as the eras advance?

Any pirates in the ocean regions would probably be at about the average tech level of the world, so their tech would advance similarly. As in our world, I would expect most small islands to be claimed by the end of the industrial era, although if there were pirates using battleships or something maybe they could be like the pirates in Captain Phillips.

By that you mean Somali pirates, yes? They're not really at a modern tech level aside from having speedboats, and pirates only really exist off that coastline in today's world.

That's a good point about modern tech level for piracy. Maybe some modern naval ships would require strategic resources like oil, so pirates would effectively be limited to transport vessels, ships that can nuisance sea lanes but not naval powers. But pirates are found in a few places outside Somalia modern day, like the Straight of Malacca and the Gulf of Guinea. And some organized crime uses boats for smuggling, which obviously isn't piracy exactly but could fill a similar role.

 Also, in our world once the navies of great empires set out to protect their trade routes piracy was more or less stamped out, and I could see the same happening in the game world once the various factions reach a certain naval tech level. So the actual times that pirates would survive well into the contemporary era would be limited by the same forces as in real life, and the presence of modern day pirate ships in the game would pretty much just be a motivator to make sure all the atolls are claimed if you want your trade routes to be safe.