The Russians emblematic unit Cossacks seems to be amongest the worst emblematic units in the game, it is even worse given that both the Russians legacy trait and emblematic districts also can be considered weak, making Russians one of the weakest culture in the game.

Cossacks replace Dragoons so to asset how good the cossacks is, we should first take a look at how much "better" the cossacks is compared to its generic counterpart. As far as I can tell there is two differences between Cossacks and Dragoons:

• Cossacks combat strength is 44 (just one more than conscripts) and 2 less than Dragoons at 46
• Cossacks have the trait multi move (which also hunnic/mongol hordes have) while Dragoons have the move and fire trait

• Multi move allow you to ignore zone of control, move and fire do not give this ability.
• Multi move allow as many move orders as possible to you have used up your movement. Move and fire allow one move order before attacking and one move after attacking (with any moves leftover after the before attacking move)

• Increase Cossacks strength to 46 making them as strong as generic dragoons, maybe also reduce their industry cost to 1290, so they compare better to Mughal Gajna.
• Increase their move to 8 to put more emphasis on their mobility, maybe also give them all terrain for super mobility.

I swear in the Closed Beta the Cossack was like 20% cheaper and a third of the population cost of the dragoon. You could argue that still makes it a rather weak unit depending on how high of a population you have by the industrial era, but that seems so much stronger than it is now.

madcookie wrote:

The whole elephant archer line is pretty broken in terms of power level, I don't think it's fair to compare things to them, they really just have to all be nerfed. However I agree that Cossacks are in a really bad place right now balance wise especially on a culture that is meant be a militaristic powerhouse if you look at their overall design.

I like the elephants, the issue is that they attached the elephants to cultures that are also extra powerful. The elephants should belong to influence or military civs, not builder civs. no one complains about spearmen getting trampled by the Carthage elephants. Because Carthage is a great civ, but it's not a builder civ so it's a more difficult choice whether they fit into a playthrough or not. You can pretty much freely take 6 builder civs back to back to back and win a Mars victory. To also get the game's best artillery / archer units? That's a bit much...

I have no idea why Cossacks are so underwhelming. I've not ever picked to play Russia because nothing about it looks advantageous over "transcend" for 10%+ fame bonus.

teatimeG wrote:
I have no idea why Cossacks are so underwhelming. I've not ever picked to play Russia because nothing about it looks advantageous over "transcend" for 10%+ fame bonus.

Yes, Russia much like americans come with nothing good really that make up for losing access to better emblematic districts or getting +10% more fame.

teatimeG wrote:

madcookie wrote:

The whole elephant archer line is pretty broken in terms of power level, I don't think it's fair to compare things to them, they really just have to all be nerfed. However I agree that Cossacks are in a really bad place right now balance wise especially on a culture that is meant be a militaristic powerhouse if you look at their overall design.

I like the elephants, the issue is that they attached the elephants to cultures that are also extra powerful. The elephants should belong to influence or military civs, not builder civs. no one complains about spearmen getting trampled by the Carthage elephants. Because Carthage is a great civ, but it's not a builder civ so it's a more difficult choice whether they fit into a playthrough or not. You can pretty much freely take 6 builder civs back to back to back and win a Mars victory. To also get the game's best artillery / archer units? That's a bit much...

I have no idea why Cossacks are so underwhelming. I've not ever picked to play Russia because nothing about it looks advantageous over "transcend" for 10%+ fame bonus.

Elephants are not the problem (as seen with Carthage) Elephant Archers/Guns are a problem because Range attackers are op and elephants are highly powered.  

Patches should be

-Increasing the Cost of the Elephant Archer units, 

-Probably decreasing their Movement ie 4 Move points, but say the gunner versions can ignore ZOC

Ranged units with "indirect fire" are quite good, even better if they have move and fire. If they have all of that and look awesome and make cool elephant noises and are also strong and cheap?

Seems like something should change, I agree. But I think the issue is bigger than just "nerf the elephants." Ranged units have a huge advantage on the default map because the melee units trip over rivers, get blocked by zones of control, and often just can't even get to the ranged units standing on a cliff. That's all as intended, but it makes picking an emblematic unit with range like the Nubians or Egyptians just so much better than picking one that is only melee like the Assyrians or Zhou.

A general nerf to ranged damage is probably what I'd try first, then see if the ranged elephants need an additional nerf. Probably the elephants should be more expensive to make. They are supposed to be your emblematic ranged unit in the back. It's too easy to make a stack of 6 elephants. I usually name it "Stomp." I probably shouldn't be allowed to do that.

madcookie wrote:

Making them more expansive will never fix anything, they have to bring down their power level, they are completely out of line with the units in their respective era. I can go through AIs like a hot knife through butter on humankind diff with 4 egyptian EU, you can't do the same with regular archers, the reason is that their EU has 24 base power in ancient era. The khmer has 42 !!!! power in medieval, compare that to mongol horde's pitiful 29 power. As OP says, it's like I'm playing 2 eras ahead of my opponent.

Really? What if they cost a million production? Making them more expensive could easily fix the problem. It's just a question of how expensive do they need to be. Make them cost a million and you won't see one unless someone hacks the game. Make them too cheap and you have a stack of elephants called "Stomp." Have faith in the fundamentals of market economics. :)