I read this thread on the posted by LordNeloz and had a quick idea.

Nuclear combat in humankind is an improvement over nukes in Civ V (and VI I believe). They cause more destruction, are a bit more transparent in their use, and yet are more nuanced as they are gated behind a combination of tech, building projects, having a two step launch process, and having the actual strategic resources necessary for production . But I think Humankind could go even further and I'm going to borrow a small bit from LordNeloz's idea.

First, there should be more ways to deliver nukes.

1. Nuclear Submarines:

Submarines would allow players much more flexibility to stealthily launch nukes as long as the submarine can reach a spot by water. They also would allow players to transport nukes from one continent/silo to another by docking at ports. The drawbacks of course, would be that the submarine is vulnerable if it's unsupported and pretty expensive. Launching a nuke from a submarine will be a three phase process.

Phase 1: Surface/prepare the nuke

During phase 1, the nuclear submarine surfaces in order to prepare launching the nuke. It is now visible to all units from one tile away (right next to it) and attackable. If the nuclear sub is attacked during this phase it aborts the nuclear launch and attempts to defend itself. If it is destroyed, the nuke is lost along with it.

Phase 2: Launch nuke

During phase 2, the submarine launches the nuke. Even if it is attacked during this phase, the nuke is launched at this point regardless of the outcome of the battle below it. Launching the nuke creates a burst of flame, fire, and clouds that are visible to all ships within a ten hex radius. They may not see the nuclear submarine, but they will know exactly where it is. They won't know whose submarine it is, however, unless they actually stumbled upon the submarine.

Phase 3: Submerge/Nuke lands

In phase three the sub will submerge and be invisible as normal but only have half its movement points. Normal combat/detection rules apply. However, since it had just submerged, it will only have half its normal movement points until next turn. Savvy opponents will use the knowledge of this temporary weakness to narrow their search for the submarine.

Preferably, to help slow down the teching and retard the capability jump, I'd ideally make there be three tiers of nuclear submarines.

Tier 1: Can launch nukes like described above.

Tier 2: Can sail under ice caps, break through one to surface and launch a nuke, potentially making it harder to find or engage them during the launch process.

Tier 3: Can do all of the above but also it can hold up to two nukes.

Transferring nukes from a submarine to a dock or from a dock to a sub is a two phase process almost identical to the launch process. If the game ever allowed for players to sell each other nukes, then a nuke submarine would be required to pick up and deliver a nuke to buyer. If the buyer doesn't have a nuclear submarine, the seller could provide transport at additional cost.

2. Nuclear Bombers:

Nuclear bombers would allow players to send someone back to the Stone Age the old fashioned way. The perks are obvious - delivery is much cheaper and faster (delivery takes only one turn) and a nuclear bomb cannot be shot down, but the drawbacks are be significant. A bomber is much easier to detect and shoot down, should one have sufficient anti-air cover, fighter cover, or both. Also, a bomber has a much lower range and is limited to operating out of stinky airbases. Should an airbase be destroyed through bombardment or razing, the bomber and its payload are both destroyed. Nuclear bombs are cheaper to make but less devastating than ICBMs. Nuke carrying bombers would come in two tiers like current bombers, that would basically just upgrade their range and ability to fend off getting shot down from the sky. It'd be pretty hard to disguise who dropped the bomb, so be prepared for shenanigans once everyone knows YOU GOT THE BOMB. Also, your previously peace-loving granola hippy anti-nuke neighbors may reconsider national nuke policy.

But wait, there's more!

Anti-Nuke Defense:

I think the game could get even moooooar interesting if there was anti-nuke defense. So, just like for nukes, you'd have to build a missile silo (albeit smaller). Then you'd have to build an anti-nuke missile (AM). Missile silos can hold as many AMs as you like similar to nuclear missile silos but can only shoot one per turn. So if your opponent fires two nukes at you and you only have one AM silo in range, then I have good news and bad news. The good news is you destroyed one nuke. The bad news is that the other nuke still got through and f***** up your s***. But hey, no one's stopping you from building multiple anti-nuke missile silos and housing multiple anti-nuke missiles in each. The catch would be that AMs would have a short range of 9, 15, and 20 tiles (different tiers of AM). So you'd have to be clever with how you place them.

If a nuke has to pass through an anti-nuke missile firing range, it has a 100% chance to be destroyed. If a nuke strikes the hex right next to the effective radius of an AM, too bad so sad, it will make boom boom unmolested by a pesky AM. It goes without saying that a nuke landing on a hex within the radius of an AM will be 100% intercepted and destroyed. There's no need to activate an AM - they are fired automatically with 100% accuracy. If an enemy army bombards and destroys an anti-nuke defense silo, it will be destroyed along with any AMs inside. They'll make a big boom hurting anything within a 1 hex radius, unit or district. If the silo is razed, the district and missiles will be lost without the splash damage.

But wait, there's more!

Anti-Nuke Defense ON THE WATER!

Yes! Yes! You didn't think I forgot about those nuclear submarines did you? They will be able to carry anti-nuclear missiles inside of them. Their firing process is similar to a nuclear sub slinging a nuclear warhead at someone because initially they won't be able to shoot these missiles from under the water. The cons are the same as a nuclear sub sending angry plutonium at someone else, but slightly less given the alert radius is smaller than a sending a nuclear payload into the heavens. The pros are....AWESOME. It's cheaper than building an anti-nuke silo (though not as durable), can move, and is stealthy! What's not to like? You could fool an opponent into thinking you have no nuke defense and then watch him play the reverse of turn that frown upside down when he realizes he wasted all six nukes he sent in your direction. NANI?!

Phase 1: Surface/prepare the anti-nuke

During phase 1, the nuclear submarine surfaces in order to prepare launching the anti-nuke missile. It is now visible to all units from one tile away (right next to it) and attackable. If the nuclear sub is attacked during this phase it attempts to defend itself and is unable to launch an anti-nuclear missile. If it is destroyed, the nuke is lost along with it. If it survives with more than 50% health, it will still be able to launch its payload next turn.

Phase 2: Launch nuke

During phase 2, the submarine launches the anti-nuke. Even if it is attacked during this phase, the anti-nuke will launch at this point regardless of the outcome of the battle below it and intercept the nuclear warhead at which it is fired. Launching the anti-nuke creates a burst of flame, fire, and clouds that are visible to all ships within a three hex radius. They may not see the nuclear submarine, but they will know exactly where it is. They won't know whose submarine it is, however, unless they actually stumbled upon the submarine.

Phase 3: Submerge

Exact same as the nuclear sub sending a nuke, except the enemy nuke you targeted was destroyed last turn (if it was in range). Tier III nuke subs don't have a phase 3 or its drawback of halved movement points.

Tier 1: Can launch anti-nukes like described above.

Tier 2: Can launch anti-nukes like described above, but from underwater, reducing it's alert signature to a two hex radius.

Tier 3: Can hold two anti-nukes and launch them both at the same time. In effect, this nuclear sub could intercept and destroy two nukes all by itself.

Naturally players could buy and sell anti-nuke missiles through the same process as selling nukes with aforementioned submarines. I'd recommend making the process automated where by a player would select the nuclear sub, right click a port connected to a territory with an anti-nuke missile, see a menu open (nuke or anti-missile nuke), click desired cargo, then right click the buyers nearest port (or port connected to a territory with a missile silo), and then the sub would automatically do the rest.

What do you guys think?

Yes or yes?

Wald

A lot of nice ideas. I remember reading comments sometimes than nukes range was too short (which for me is interesting balance wise and allow to counter-attack on silo) but would be interesting than nuclear submarines become the way to "increase that range", so the nuclear attacker need to take risk too.

Also, I liked in battlestar galactica when there was mindgame with nukes. The target know than they are targeted, but they don't know if the rocket will be launched and if they should rataliate too (and on which target).
Would be an interesting mechanic than there is a preparation turn before being able to confirm a nuke, and the target player learn than in that turn they are targeted but not by which player. So will maybe themself send a nuke on the wrong player when the first one cancelled mainwhile

Narcisse wrote:

A lot of nice ideas. I remember reading comments sometimes than nukes range was too short (which for me is interesting balance wise and allow to counter-attack on silo) but would be interesting than nuclear submarines become the way to "increase that range", so the nuclear attacker need to take risk too.

Hi, yep I made some feedback months ago about the range problem. To be specific, it is not really a range problem in itself actually, range limitation is intersting gameplay wise as you highlighted, it is a map scaling issue. I think on normal map size there is no issue, but alas it scales badly with bigger map (actually it does not scale at all with map size), the whole thing callopse to the point where the nukes are no longer a credible threat. Btw, pretty sure the devs are aware of this feedback as I saw it multiple time here or on the discord.

@Wald : Great ideas, upvoted! :)