After the Metternich update, Independent people are in a good spot. (at least in my opinion.) My favorite think about the new IP rework is that converting IP to client state is now very valuable! (especially with the Together we Rule Expansion.) I definitely think Independent people and client states are now in a spot where they can and should be a much bigger part of the game.

With that in mind, my request is that we give more Independent People and Client State oriented legacy traits to the games cultures, and in some instances, replace some legacy traits entirely. 

I think adding such legacy traits is a good idea because it would further incentivize interacting and competing for independent people. I think replacing some already existing legacy traits with IP and Client state oriented bonuses would be a good idea because it would help move the game away from flat FIMSI based legacy traits.  Flat FIMSI bonuses as legacy traits have been criticized a lot. That is a much larger topic that I could make an entirely different thread for... But for now, FIMSI bonuses as legacy traits, I feel should be replaced because many of the cultures Emblematic Quarters already give large FIMSI bonuses, as well as the fact that many players (myself included), do not find flat FIMSI legacy traits to be interesting.

Some examples of IP and Client State Legacy traits I'd like to see....

 + 3 science on researchers per client state. (or + X food on farmer per client state, + X industry on client state per worker etc.)

Independent people created through liberation start with +40 patronage, and give significantly stronger bonuses if made a client state.

Luxury and Strategic resources purchased from client states give one extra copy of that resource.

* Side note, I'd be cool if Independent people would actively buy from and establish trade routes with player empires.

Envoys generate + 2 Patronage per turn with Client state. (instead of + 1 patronage per turn)

+ 10 faith on main plaza if fellow people. (Assimilated Independent people give more faith).

Independent people can spread empires state religion faster. (Their spread will not be as affected by the distance penalty with this trait)

Mercenaries cost - 50% less gold, can be kept for +10 additional turns, and have + 2 combat strength.

+ 1 patronage from Mercenary Army with the Independent People you hired from.

Client States have more FIMISI, can grow and develop faster, and give a larger FIMSI boost to their overlord empire. (Client states gain +10% of their overlords FIMSI, Client states give +30 % extra FIMISI to their overlord.) 

+5 influence per independent unit killed. + 10 Influence per hostile independent unit killed.

-5% industry cost on shared project per client state.

+1 patronage on bribe

+1 to spy cap per client state

Examples of changes to existing cultures I would like to see....

Haudenosaunee

Replace Haudenosaunee's current legacy trait (+ 1 food on exploitation), with "Client states now give a percentage of their food." 

This would be unique because Client States currently do not give food bonuses. Also I think this makes sense for the Haudenosaunee's real world history, as the Haudenosaunee was a confederacy of multiple tribes. This confederacy was a large part of their identity. In fact the word "Haudenosaune" means "people of the long house." The "long house" referred to their confederacy of multiple allied tribes.

Edo Japanese

Replace Edo Japanese current Legacy trait ( +1 influence per population). with " + 30 Influence from conquered Independent People" (along with some other influence bonus with independent people, I'm not sure what...)

Edo Japanese's current Legacy trait is overpowered, and snowballs far too easily, which is why I want to see it be replaced.

Mauryans

The Mauryan's legacy trait used to give bonuses to assimilating Independent People, but that was changed because back then the IP system was shallow and was barely worth it. But now that IP's are worth it, can they get that bonus back?

I hope you consider these changes. The changes made to independent people was a strong step in the right direction in my opinion. So why not go further by designing more of the game and the cultures around Independent people and client states?

On this subject, I do wonder if expansionist emblematic quarters should have more of the British approach. Given how their quarters are often palaces and houses of worship, the ability build them in client states and give bonuses to their capitals makes sense. I do stand in the view that the Americans should have the shopping mall as their emblematic quarter, but defense agencies in client states in thematic. The British would be the only who can also do this in vassal states.

I like the idea of updating some existing cultures' Legacy Traits (and EQ/EU?) to interact better with Independent Peoples now that they're a more detailed part of the game!  It didn't make as much sense when the game shipped, but now that IPs are becoming more and more compelling, it'd be great to include them in more parts of the game.

A few weeks ago I proposed a similar idea from the opposite direction:  Give a unique trait to independent peoples that we can claim when we assimilate/client state them.  I think both my idea and yours are compatible with one another and would both be great additions to the game.

Ani_Taneen wrote:
Given how their quarters are often palaces and houses of worship, the ability build them in client states and give bonuses to their capitals makes sense. I do stand in the view that the Americans should have the shopping mall as their emblematic quarter, but defense agencies in client states in thematic

Thanks for reminding me, Ani_Taneen!  I've wanted the ability to build defense agencies in other territories for a while, and putting them in Client States makes a ton of sense!  I've created a new thread for this.

Daarkarrow wrote:

hey, thanks for you feedback it was super nice and interesting.
Could be really nice. But we need to make sure that the bonus are not super high, otherwise you could move super quickly from having, idk +30 industry, to 0 if other people conquer your Independent People. I mean like super volatile bonuses.

Thank you for taking the time to read my feedback! Obviously, tweak and balance my suggestions at your own discretion should you choose to act on my suggestions. 

Also you bring up an interesting point. While the idea of having huge bonuses from tons of client states be suddenly lost when they are conquered may sound volatile... I also view it as high risk high reward gameplay! In my view at least, independent people already function like this. Client states currently give decent sums of Science, Money, and Influence, but most importantly give huge boost to International sway. (Side note, I think the current International Sway boost from client states is a bit over tuned and could be nerfed by -15%) They give big bonuses, but can easily be conquered, which creates a lot of incentive to defend your clients, and act on grievances related to other empires attacking your clients. In my games, it's lead to interesting and cool diplomatic scenarios. The high risk high reward aspect is definitely something to consider!

Agreed, Client States and even lesser treaties with Independent Peoples are already high risk high reward.  Getting +100 science from an IP in the first three eras of the game is a huge boon (that could maybe be tuned down a bit?) Certain cultures getting other benefits from IPs would add an interesting dynamic to their play.