I'd like to preface this by saying I am not sure if this is even possible to mod into the game, I think we will have to wait and see until modding tools are released. I tried digging around the Closed Beta files and it didn't seem too promising to make a mod like this. If someone higher up could confirm whether this is even possible it would be very appreciated :)
The idea is based on me finding cultures shifting completely to be jarring, unbelievable and imo too 'gamey.' Seeing the Harappans become Huns to English to Ming is just too crazy for my tastes, I can see the charm some may see in it but I don't like it at all. My proposed fix to this would be to lock cultures into only being able to select certain cultures. I have based these groupings on Samuel Huntington's "Clash of Civilizations" theory, a theory I learnt in university that divides the modern world into 9 general groupings. I find this theory to be rubbish and a huge overgeneralisation of international politics, however it is handy in situations like these, and I often made single and multiplayer games in Civ using his theory as regional groupings.
The groupings:
Here is a wiki link to read more on the theory: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clash_of_Civilizations
I have prepared a quick draft table on how I would categorise Humankind's cultures into the theory's groupings. "Break into" means that on reaching the next era, you are forced into whatever grouping/culture you are moved into and cannot return, while "option into" means that you have the option to jump into another grouping, but can remain in the current one if the player wants to. In the case of the Industrial era as the African grouping, you get the optional prompt + able to pick Zulu, all other optionals/breaks are tied to cultures. Blank spaces mean that you must transcend. Here is the table, feel free to ask for any clarifications:
*note, Joseon is also in Sinic column, I am too lazy to re-take the screenshot and put it back into here :)
Any suggestions or thoughts are appreciated. I hope to make this mod a reality if I can, any help, tips, or telling me that it is impossible, is all appreciated.
I agree with you on the concept, by I strongly disagree about using that map as a basis, it is way too modern and too contestable.
If it would be possible to add new cultures, I would really love to see expandables trees. Like opting for Germanics in the ancient era, choosing between Goths and Alemanni in the classical ones, choosing between Visigoths/Spain and Lombards for Goths or Francs and Germans for Alemanni, and such.
The thing about stuff like that is that is also just as ahistorical.
Mexico that went from Aztec to Spanish to Mexican.
Or Sicily that has gone from Phonecian, Carthaginian, Roman, Vandal/Ostrogoth, Italian, Greek, French, Muslim, Spanish and back to Italian over the years.
Or Greece that went Mycenaen, Greek, possibly phoneician, roman, byzantine, spanish, Ottoman and Italian/back to greek.
Or India that has been various indians, English, Portuguese, Mughal/other muslim, and modern indian. not to even touch places like Africa/middle east.
PS Is going from English to Ming so offputting when places went from Qing Chinese to being every flavor of european?
I like this idea, but it would probably be hard to implement in a satisfactory way. For example, you should definitely be able to go Romans->Spanish->Mexicans, and I'd argue that Umayyads->Spanish is at least as fitting as Aztecs->Spanish. If anything, it might be better as a tree with each individual civ having valid successors.
Of course, many of these civs have no Ancient-era predecessors, so it wouldn't work perfectly (this is why one of my pet peeves is the scarcity of non-Middle Eastern options for the Ancient Era and lack of an ability to transcend as tribe). The worst example is the Zulu, which have no predecessors in any of the previous four eras (the Nubians, Aksumites, and/or Ghanaians are thousands of miles away and basically unrelated). Come to think of it, we kind of need an Early Modern African culture (Zimbabwe?).
Then you also have the increased risk of being "blocked off" entirely by other players taking all of your successors, as well as the fact that certain lines won't synergize as well as others.
The thing about stuff like that is that is also just as ahistorical.
Mexico that went from Aztec to Spanish to Mexican.
Or Sicily that has gone from Phonecian, Carthaginian, Roman, Vandal/Ostrogoth, Italian, Greek, French, Muslim, Spanish and back to Italian over the years.
Or Greece that went Mycenaen, Greek, possibly phoneician, roman, byzantine, spanish, Ottoman and Italian/back to greek.
Or India that has been various indians, English, Portuguese, Mughal/other muslim, and modern indian. not to even touch places like Africa/middle east.
PS Is going from English to Ming so offputting when places went from Qing Chinese to being every flavor of european?
Ok guys, I think you completely miss the point of the thing, you went wayyyyyy to far
It's not about what countries had on their soil, but what population became, then trying to place them accordingly if possible at all
You've completely reversed the problem
No, the Aztecs didn't become Spanish, they became dead. But for the sake of not completely blocking the player, either they commit and go Aztec for the rest of the game once they're there (thanks to the transcend mechanic), or they can change to Spanish in the next era. Or Dutch. Or French. Or English.
Because this culture disapeared, you effectively need to find a way to continue to play, in that case you search what culture came there, where they lived, next
But for cultures that didn't, it's fairly straight forward
Of course, the further you go down the line, the less cultures you will have, but even in ancient eras, there was at least 10 cultures ^^
I think I'm with you; if you take Socio-Culturally Approaches (Max Weber, Durkheim etc to name the Classics), Culture Groups are a great idea if you want culture switches that make sense in terms of comprehensible and reasonable changes. The cultures in the group don't need to be political follow-ups, what matters is a somewhat cultural connection or at least hypothetical reason/potential for Culture A to become Culture B.
Although for some cultures (ingame or yet to be modded), I think there is room to make them accessable from two different culture groups or let them lead into them.
To achieve this, there is no way around creating new cultures in my opinion, maybe even different versions of the same culture for different playstyles (if you want to go completely wild there might be even room for "realistic" alt-history versions like early-modern/industrial non-colonial cultures from the Americas)
As for the culture groups themselves, I think I would prefer the broader cultural spheres which crystallised in antiquity (Huntingtons modell refers in my opinion to much on modern circumstances), but with the mentioned "crossroads-cultures".
Perhaps another way to think about this is using Influence, in-game: for example, if I choose Zhou, and am bordering the Harappans, I will be able to choose a culture that falls within a similar "family" as that?
In this way, one can simulate the expected transfer of influence and culture via proximity. It would make sense that I might choose to play as the Dutch in the early-modern era, if my neighbors were largely "western" cultures?
I'd expect this could be a rather easier idea to grasp once modders begin adding custom cultures to the game. It might be an interesting idea if rather than choosing cultures, the default was to transcend with the bonuses applied based on a) neighbors' cultures, b) era score, c) playstyle, and so on. In this way, the Zhou I play as in ancient era will be vastly different than in the medieval era.
I had a similar idea and did some digging to put together a list of what each culture could evolve into. Whether it was geographical location, former colonies, or just picking the closest thing possible to ensure at least one (reasonable) option. This is what I came up with so far. Starts with ancient cultures and shows possible future cultures for each era. Moves to classical and so on. It's not perfect, but it's better than how the game is now with the jarring culture changes.
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