Culture Hierarchy and Future Cultures

Zolobolo

Eyder

4 years ago

Jan 3, 2021, 8:37:58 PM

The Culture selection screen for each era is a brilliant stroke to eliminate player fatique of a faction and prevent anacronistic cultures in an era and the unique units/buildings only being available for a single era

Question: Does anyone know if a hierarchy is being implemented planned for the cultures?

If so, it can be based on game mechanics (horde mechanics for Huns->Mongols) or historical basis (Minoan/Phoenician/Etruscans ->Greek/Rome/Chartage-> Venice/Byzantine Empire/Vandals -> Italian Kingdom/Kingdom of Sicily/Turkish Empire ...etc

If hierarch is based on historical consistency (sort of) it could be togled on or off (simple enough) depending on player preference but this is not that easy if the hierarch is based on game mechanics

Benefits of a hierarchy could be signifficant:

1. Futher increase historical consistency

2. Balancing of various special units and buildings made more simple (if that is a goal at all as is only single player :))

3. Opportunity to hide special easter eggs for the players to find and encourage exploration of different branches (Atlantis, Vatican,

Ostrogothic Kingdom, Switzerland, Soviet union...etc). The player has a rough idea of what branch might lead where but could be much fun to explore

4. Enemy progression can be somewhat estimated (at least the general direction of where they might be heading later)

5. Less cultures during selection reduces the scrolling in the selection screen withouth decreasing image or hint size

Drawback is that some of the cultures that have been wiped out dont have a clear way of leading into future cultures especially multiple ones so hisotrical consistency needs to be broken for these cases (maybe even 40-50% of the cases)

Another drawback is the fact that any hierarchy would decrease the range of options for the player during era selection and move the cocnept closer to the original CIV selection process where the first selection decreases player options later - one way of mitaigating this is to only base a portion of the selection on pervious selection and have a larger pool of factions always being available for the individual eras

The concept of this culture selection also lends itself to a unique opportunity for a future era where all sorts of fun new cultures can be invented (maybe via DLC) and if combined with hisotrical accuracy hierarchy everythign here would basically be an easter egg :)

Expansion in general can also fit in well with a branching tree as they can offer new branches or unique mechanics/units/buildings across a branch enabling upgrade of unique buldings/units. E.g.: Mycenaean Heavy Infantry -> Etruscan Infantry -> Roman Legionary

Updated 4 years ago.

Lompeluiten

Addict

Lompeluiten

Addict

17 300g2g pts

4 years ago

Jan 3, 2021, 9:06:40 PM

I am playing a game, I don't need that much "Historical consistency". I wan't bothered In Civ that I founded the united stats of America (1 city is not united states) in 4000 BC

Zolobolo

Eyder

Zolobolo

Eyder

4 years ago

Jan 3, 2021, 9:15:14 PM

Lompeluiten wrote:
I am playing a game, I don't need that much "Historical consistency". I wan't bothered In Civ that I founded the united stats of America (1 city is not united states) in 4000 BC

Indeed: that is why concentrating on culture is much more beneficial it is often more easy to be accure AND have fun with a game mechanic this way e.g.: you would not be controlling the USA but Anglo Saxons qand creating whatever city and state you like :)

But of course lots of our most well known cultural groups melted togehter with the state they formed (such as the case with Romans) but in case of Greece city states this is no issue: it does not specify which particual city state you are playing as (and it doesnt need to :))

basileus48

Newcomer

basileus48

Newcomer

5 100g2g pts

4 years ago

Feb 9, 2021, 3:42:16 AM

I like this idea and I am hoping at least it can be possible to create these historical hierarchies or “runs” via modding.

Drai_Berlin

Blue Pixel

4 Chan is overrated

Drai_Berlin

Blue Pixel

15 400g2g pts

4 years ago

Feb 9, 2021, 12:21:22 PM

I think this feature should exist, but it should be optional.

Legaran

in Disguise

Legaran

in Disguise

5 900g2g pts

4 years ago

Feb 24, 2021, 1:02:22 AM

I think CULTURE GROUPS or "succession of cultures" is a better term for what you're talking about rather than hierarchies :)

"Hierarchies" would be about ranking some cultures as superior (let's not get into that discussion!), not about how some cultures are historically related.

I definitely like the idea of a limited culture selection based on culture group/region (e.g. Mycenaeans can choose to become either Greeks or Romans), but I'm almost certain we won't see that in the official game (except hopefully in some scenarios). It's a core concept that players can choose freely between all available cultures.

But culture groups would be a great concept for a mod.

I don't have modding experience but I have lots of ideas about what I would like to see in a mod like that :)
I might post them when I have more time :)

brucewayne04

Ancestor

Customize your signature!

brucewayne04

Ancestor

12 600g2g pts

4 years ago

Mar 9, 2021, 9:36:11 AM

Will we be able to customize our own culture?

VIPHBumblebee

Wannabe Scout

Stay curious!

VIPHBumblebee

Wannabe Scout

43 600g2g pts

4 years ago

Mar 9, 2021, 9:45:15 AM

brucewayne04 wrote:
Will we be able to customize our own culture?

You do that, kind of, in a normal game, since you can pick and combine up to six cultures. Creating entirely new cultures you're able to pick is probably more a job for modders I guess.

Updated 4 years ago.

LeMecDePhalanx

Horatio Face

"There, this thread has been beautified" - Broratio.

LeMecDePhalanx

Horatio Face

36 700g2g pts

4 years ago

Mar 11, 2021, 3:53:18 PM

I just like that you mentioned Atlantis XD. I mean, we do know that Atlantis existed, but they would just be lumped in under early Greeks.

Mordomacar

Fanatic

Mordomacar

Fanatic

22 600g2g pts

4 years ago

Apr 23, 2021, 4:09:12 PM

I mean - I do think it could be fun to have hidden "Prestige Cultures" that have prerequisites in terms of previous choices, but it would probably be impossible to balance. Probably more for a mod than for the base game.

Zolobolo

Eyder

Zolobolo

Eyder

4 years ago

Apr 24, 2021, 8:58:31 AM

Mordomacar wrote:
I mean - I do think it could be fun to have hidden "Prestige Cultures" that have prerequisites in terms of previous choices, but it would probably be impossible to balance. Probably more for a mod than for the base game.

That is true if there is balancing to the cultures

I only play and consider single-player where this is not really an issue: I expect the player to get into situations that are unwinnable (unfair) and find combinations that are very powerful

Valmighty

Newcomer

Valmighty

Newcomer

13 900g2g pts

4 years ago

May 26, 2021, 6:34:29 PM

I would love to see this feature.

I love the mechanics that makes the cultures on a wheel. That we can only choose -for example- only 2 degree left and right

Zolobolo

Eyder

Zolobolo

Eyder

4 years ago

Aug 25, 2021, 7:09:16 PM

Valmighty wrote:
I would love to see this feature.

I love the mechanics that makes the cultures on a wheel. That we can only choose -for example- only 2 degree left and right

Exactly: there is still a level of flexibility but it is more logical how each culture evolve into one-another over time

No Samurai fighting next to Mayan soldier

Drawback would be less competition to pick races (which I wouldnt mind) and that not all cultures have logical tie-ins

The latter can be remedied with historical research :)

Zolobolo

Eyder

Zolobolo

Eyder

4 years ago

Aug 26, 2021, 8:04:46 PM

A review from RepublicofPlay has noted a point that cultures cna be selected without any sort of pre-requirement other then they were not chosen before which ties into this topic

Having pre-requirements for each culture woudl also serve well to narrow down the selection and have the player lean more heavily into roleplaying the cultures at hand

e.g.:

- Having harbour and a colony outside of your own continent to be able to choose Phoenicians

- Settle first city in Desert tiles and next to at least one river for Egypt

- Establish x amount of outposts to choose an expansion heavy Civ

- Having battle success rate <x% to choose Rome

- Build a school in each citiy for China

- Build at least one charriot unit to choose a CIV which has chariot specific faction unit in the next tier

etc...

Tracking these pre-requirements could easily be done from the faction selection menu itself and it would serve as great tension to have to build towwards ceartant civs but seeing them being snatched away :)

The challenge in such a concept would be to code the AI to take these into consideration

Ani_Taneen

Blue Tempest

Ani_Taneen

Blue Tempest

30 200g2g pts

4 years ago

Aug 27, 2021, 4:13:07 PM

Zolobolo wrote:
A review from RepublicofPlay has noted a point that cultures cna be selected without any sort of pre-requirement other then they were not chosen before which ties into this topic

Having pre-requirements for each culture woudl also serve well to narrow down the selection and have the player lean more heavily into roleplaying the cultures at hand

e.g.:
- Having harbour and a colony outside of your own continent to be able to choose Phoenicians
- Settle first city in Desert tiles and next to at least one river for Egypt
- Establish x amount of outposts to choose an expansion heavy Civ
- Having battle success rate <x% to choose Rome
- Build a school in each citiy for China
- Build at least one charriot unit to choose a CIV which has chariot specific faction unit in the next tier
etc...
Tracking these pre-requirements could easily be done from the faction selection menu itself and it would serve as great tension to have to build towwards ceartant civs but seeing them being snatched away :)
The challenge in such a concept would be to code the AI to take these into consideration

There is an amazing Mod of Civ 4, which I STROGLY RECOMMEND to everyone who plays this game called Dawn of Civilization, it is built on Rhye's and Fall of Civilization. I bring it up because it has that system, not found civilizations, but to start religions. See in that game you play on an earth map, and religions get founded through historical event, but you can trigger founding a religion early by meeting goals such as

Judaism
Event: founded in a city in the Levant around 1500 BC (independent cities prioritized)
Goal: discover Writing and conquer an independent city

Hinduism
Event: India spawns
Goal: discover Ceremony and acquire six different happiness resources

Catholicism
Event: founded when more than half of all Orthodox cities are outside of a civ without Orthodox state religion
Goal: discover Theology and build an Orthodox Cathedral

-https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/new-religion-founding-conditions.607889/

I'd love to see something similar for Religions

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