Hey everyone!

While naval gameplay was not necessarily the focus of the Lucy OpenDev, it was the first chance for our fans to play with more than very early naval units. Many players explored the naval gameplay in detail and gave us some great feedback, so in the Lucy OpenDev we want to put a greater focus on naval gameplay and hear from you what you think of the changes.

We have:

• Increased number of turns ships with Navigator can survive in deep water
• Introduced Skilled Navigator for mid-game ships, allowing them to survive even longer in deep water
• Fixed gun platforms being unable to shoot at land units in combat
• Increased the range of Gun Platform ships
• Reduced cost of naval trade routes

Please note, we are aware of some issues related to naval gameplay:

• Naval trade routes do not show jetties or trade route pins to ransack
• Sometimes naval trade routes cannot be created for resources in multi-territory cities
• The AI may not construct many warships yet

I'd agree that it would be nice to have more interaction between land and sea units in battles for instance. Is that too ahistorical or only for later eras? Maybe I am primed by civ's ancient rocket boats? Also, I do think that it is still the case that you could have five kinghts, for instance, jumping on a boat, fighingt there at same strenghts as on land against anything else as if they were Horatio Nelson himself. Not the biggest problem for me, but certainly raises my eye-brows a bit. This circumstance makes me basically not really understand any of the ancient and classical ships in the game as they cannot explore too much and look a bit underpowered to me for naval battles. But perhaps that's just me. Anyway, I think the game is certainly fun to play and the improvements for me good. Thanks!   

I'm someone who enjoys a good naval game. And as others note, Civ is not a place to find it.

Here naval plays a bit like civ unfortunately - meaning your ships spend thousands of years at sea without having to return to harbor. There's also not much for ships to do except explore, and again, it's gonna take a long time. Since ships can't colonize, you still have to wait until land unit embarkation before you can start colonies (as Phoenicia, I was hoping I would be able to colonize with ships...). I haven't seen the AI build a single ship, nor were there barbarian ships, so I wasn't able to test combat.

In other words, it's what we're used to, so not much to complain about, but also nothing special.

Still I hope it gets developed further because I will definitely use it (Phoencia, the Dutch...)!

Same, went for Phoenicia, and there was just no reason to build a Bireme. In later eras was good and easy to ransack enemies harbour's, but it was only one or two, not many action you can do with naval armies, maybe if they could ransack coastal tiles... By the way ai didn't built ships so can't say anyithing about the naval combat.

Same for me. Having ships doesn't seem to do much, except for exploring. And even if you happen to find a nice place somewhere, you cannot claim it. So yes, ships should have a way to construct settlements on coastal land tiles, that would help somewhat.

As others, I was very much surprised when I attacked an embarked unit and it was super strong. What's the point of having ships, if land units seem to be the better naval units due to higher strength and more versatility? Land units should be way less powerful: Either add a -50% penalty or make all land units fight as "transport ships", meaning they get a fixed (and low) amount of combat strength, depending on which era they're from. Also, if land units were much weaker on the seas, there'd suddenly be an incentive to build ships to protect them.

And I also agree to the first post about harbours and coastal tiles, which feel underwhelming. I'd rather be able to build more but slightly less powerful harbour districts but in a way that they interact with each other and placement matters.Also, meaningful adjacency boni for certain districts/the city center being close to the harbour would help as well, to make it feel less detached from the rest of the city.

It was a bit difficult to understand what tech I needed to get my units to be able to cross oceans. Other than transports, I didn't bother with naval gameplay as it didn't seem too interesting. It would need more things to do to make meaningful. It would be good if territories could gain something from naval presence in their or adjacent territories, for example stability or food / trade income.

I didn't really do it :P
Mostly because I just didn't see a real reason to.

The only time I build naval units is to explore. They otherwise have very little impact on the game, unless I really need to siege a small island that is all quarters (but I generally just ignore these tbh). 

Very happy that gun platforms can be involved in combat, that was one of the critical things that needed to be fixed in order for navies to actually be useful. However, I think the other thing is that there needs to be a reason to build coastal cities. Right now, yields on land are much better than on water, and you can get all the benefits of ocean/lake yields from a harbor that is totally disconnected from your city. If navies are to be useful, imo, harbors need to have an adjacency requirement in order to be built, which also lends another tactical consideration to city placement.

Can naval units blockade trade routes/water tile yields? Idk cause I barely ever use them, but this would at least give a use case for navies in some situations, particularly against merchant cultures.

I think that's an important point, for me at least. This also goes beyond naval feedback. The regions remind me of endless legends, where yields are randomly distributed in a region. This forces you to build your city wherever it is most lucrative. In reality most settlements were build near rivers or the coast though. Rivers I think are adequatly reflected, but the coast is just unimportant given the harbour placing ability. Hence it renders most non-transport ships relativley worthless, unless your opponent has enough harbours to pillage for cash. I think the yield distribution on coasts or regions should be rather centered around bays (and rivers) instead of randomly placed throughout a region. This would make coastal cities, buildings and hence seafaring (as well as the threat from seafaring) a more serious game mechanic early on. Just a thought. 

I think it was a mistake to increase the time navigator ships could spend in deep water, I preferred when it was 4 turns since it meant more careful planning when attempting to sail into the new world. Now I think it's too easy, and doesn't offer that different of a gameplay experience than the deep sea ships an era later which is disappointing. I don't really get the same sense of worry that my ships won't make it or need to strategize island chaining as much. The only difference between the two is I can set one on auto explore and have it not die 6 turns later.

As brought up in a different thread, and echoing some of the comments above, encouraging more coastal development would be a step towards more engaging naval gameplay - the more districts and wealthy cities near a coast, the more likely we are to build up and use a navy to harass, pillage, or conquer those areas.

How then, do we encourage more coastal cities and districts? The only incentive right now is to build Market Quarters adjacent to harbours (for +3 Money), so founding a city closer to the coast might mean you'll get to connect those Market Quarters sooner, but that's about it.

I think (at the risk of repeating a particular suggestion) requiring that the harbour be built off an existing district would naturally encourage players to settle closer to the coast, especially if they're intent on placing a harbour sooner or closer to a good coastal spot. This would also improve the aesthetic of cities with their more organic-looking harbours between city districts, as opposed to the current Victor OpenDev harbours on isolated regions of the territory (or wherever gives the harbour the largest bonuses).

As discussed on the discord, here's the idea for making Harbours (and thus Naval gameplay) more interesting and varied

1) Split the Basic Harbour district into two separate districts, the Port and the Shipyard. The summary of their abilities is described below:

Generic Harbour Traits (applies to all harbours): May only be built on Coastal Water; -10 stab to city or outpost; Allow units to embark without penalties; Receives all bonuses from harbour infrastructures; Can allow districts to be built from it (like the Hamlet); Can't be built over the territory's Harbour cap (more on that later).

Port Traits Exploits food/science up to 2 tiles away; +3 money to adjacent Market Quarters.

Shipyard Traits Exploit no tiles; +2 production per adjacent coastal water tiles; +3 research to adjacent Research Quarters; Functions as a naval unit spawn. 

EQ Harbour Traits: Exploits food/science up to 2 tiles away; +3 money to adjacent Market Quarters; +3 research to adjacent Research Quarters; Functions as a naval unit spawn; Any extra traits based on the EQ (Money for Haven, Industry for Cothon, Food for Naust, etc).  

2) Create a "territory harbour cap". You start the game being able to build 1 harbour (either Port, shipyard or EQ harbour) per territory, then at Foreign Outposts (late classical) you would increase the limit by +1, and at either Naval Artillery (early E. Modern) or Seafaring Mastery (late Medieval) you would increase the limit by +1 again, making you be able to field at maximum 3 harbours (between Ports, Shipyards and EQ harbours) per territory. 

3) Allow ships (not embarked units) to ransack districts adjacent to the coast, and give the Early Modern Carrack and Man'o'War the bombardment ability (or a weaker version of it).

4) Add the following ability to Propeller (early Industrial Tech): "Canals: allow you to move ships between two different harbours in the same territory in the same way a shed moves troops", preferably with a little canal visual built between your harbours in the same territory like the railroad is built between sheds.
 

I think that the main problem with naval gameplay is the lack of goals for it. To encourage players to build and actively use ships, I would suggest the following:

1) Let ships ransack coastal tiles and give them targets for that.  I would say even range of 1 for ransack would be enough if you allowed to build districts starting from the harbor, which makes sense both for gameplay (due to the adjacency bonuses) and historically / authentically. I understand why devs removed the ability to build districts starting near extractors and holy sites, since it removed the need for hamlets and broke the pacing of the early game, but they should allow extanding from harbors. It would even reflect real history, look at Rome / Ostia and Athens / athenian harbor.

2) Make it so that ships can build outposts. Again, it makes sense from both the gameplay and the historical perspective. I think at least biremes should be able to do this. Now biremes are a unit that can only be useful for reconnaissance, but you cannot use knowledge you get from it for at least an era, making it borderline useless. It would also better represent expansionism of real Phoenicians and further differentiate them from Nubians in game.

3) Also, I would propose to make so that the purchase of resources requires money per turn, even a small amount. This will increase the need for both ransacking and guarding trade outposts, increasing the need for active fleet.

I think the last two comments summed up the issue really well: Navies lack both utility and mobility.

I agree that mobility has to increase. And the text "Boarding Vessel" was also super misleading. I thought it meant it could ferry units FAST across the oceans. So after finding some islands I want to get to that required sailing across deep water tiles, I loaded up my quadrireme with a scout and... then they could only move 2 tiles per turn because of the scouts movement ability. The scout got ON the boat, he's not paddling along side. He absolutely should move at the speed of the boat. It also then made it impossible for me to reach the island with them because at 2 movement per turn I'd be lost at sea. This was super frustrating. It also makes trying to achieve expansionist star goals really hard if you can see all the land but not be able to claim it. 

It certainly would increase the effectiveness and utility of navies if ships in Humankind gained the ability to haul units, could be represented by a separate army window, who's army size is limited by the number of ships in the stack. The complaints about movement are largely tied to the slow transport vessels I imagine, which should stay in the game but as an alternative to dedicated ships ferrying units. Loading chariots on to a trireme would be sick.

Unlike my other feedback posts, this one will be rather short by virtue of the AI not engaging in naval endeavours or building any ships at all ;)

I went Phoenicians, Carthage and Venice in my main run so I did my fair share of naval stuff. I liked all the improvements that were in this Victor build; I built an empire on naval trade routes and it felt great; ship movement and range was fine. Ships look really cool! Naval combat only happened when my ships engaged with embarked independent units so that wasn't really a challenge. I can only speculate on actual naval combat: the attacker will be strongly advantaged starting from the cannon ages since there is no terrain strategizing at sea: the attacker can focus fire one enemy ship without penalty since all ships can reach eachother. Since the attacker is decided by who can click the other army the fastest, this isn't great fun.

So this will need to be addressed I think, but please beware with systems like the EL one; random storms and fog feel very unfair and punitive when you can't directly control your unit movement and position. While that concept was really cool, I disliked how it turned out.

Another thing: it would be so cool if early naval scouting was rewarded with coastal outpost; currently ships can't do it. But I don't know if it would be unbalanced.

Reduced transportation cost of naval trade was very nice touch. It did not make sense at all that a naval trade route had even higher cost than that of land trade route (especially when they had similar travel distance.)

Changlini wrote:

What would make naval ships better?

1. Being able to initiate attacks to siege coastal cities
2. Being able to initiate battle against land units on an adjacent land tile.

I also think that there should be a bigger kind of stimulus or incentive to having a navy. So what could be a benefit of having ships besides being able to take part in battles and sieges?

In the Victor Open Dev I tried to explore the seas and I noticed that there are many regions that consist mostly or only of water tiles so as far as I see it, there is no possibility to claim these regions with an outpost. So the presence of ships could mark a temporary claim to that sea region which could e.g. count towards the number of controlled regions, increase your influence on  on neighbouring outposts and so on. 

In the moment naval trade routes do not show pins on the map but if this is going to be inplemented, a strong navy could be essential to protect your trade.

Although I've built a lot of ships in Victor, I can never actually find something for them to do. The AI doesn't really build ships or settle on the coast, and exploring doesn't seem to have a point until my transports are advanced enough to ferry land units over deep sea tiles and make outposts.

As others have said, I think the biggest way to improve this isn't changing the ships, but giving incentive to build on the coast. Allowing quarters to build off of harbours again and giving them some chunky adjacency bonuses would mean that coasts were worth raiding and protecting. Combat ships should probably also be able to ransack coastal quarters and perform some form of naval blockade/siege - conquering cities wouldn't make much sense with the combat system, but if there was a stability/yield drain for enemy ships blockading your coast I'd definitely ignore naval less.

7. I mean maybe they can? I don't know I'm not an elephantologist but ... yes. You probably took my meaning.

8roomsofelixir wrote:

- Some other ways to encourage players to build more quarters in the water or on the coast. For instance, give City Center an extra yield when on the coast (since it cannot exploit coastal waters), or to give a larger adjacency to Market and even Makers Quarters that are build next to a Harbor.

- Better Harbor infrastructures for increasing the costal yields, to encourage the player to invest the sea. For instance, give Harbor a bit larger money yield from the water tiles, to encourage player build cities on the coast specialized in money making.

- Early naval Units can ignore closed borders on water, until the borders are closed by a later Era tech - in order to buff the effectiveness of early costal exploration.

- Certain naval units can ransack land-based Quarters directly on the coast.

- Certain naval units can increase the movement of embarked land units when formed in an army.

- Beginning from Early Modern, long range naval units can receive "Bombardment" trait, so they can bombard quarters from ocean as a form of long range support fire.

- During a war, naval units can "blockade" an enemy Harbor. It can be achieved via "parking a naval unit next to enemy Harbor can deny the Harbor from receiving yields or give the city a stability hit" or similar.

- Make early naval units a bit faster. Naval movement was faster than land movement before railway, and navies were acted as a rapid response force since very early in the human history; while currently, the only way to buff early naval movement is to pick Norse in Medieval and built Great Lighthouse, both are fairly limited/railroaded choices. I would suggest increase early and Medieval naval units' movements from 4 to 5, Transport Ships from 2 to 4, Caravel from 3 to 5, and Langskip from 3 to 4 (since it now benefits from Norse LT).

Absolutely!! At least naval units' movement should be faster than movement of land units, except for cavalry/mounted units. In reality sailing ship is faster than moving by foot anyway.

Regarding early modern era or later eras, I think it would be nice to have naval units with bombardment traits or long range like that of a mortar unit. This can buff naval gameplay significantly, since defending coastal territories or cities would require naval units to counter enemies' long range barrages. 

Plus, it is also possible to give naval units a special ability, which, when joined into army with land-unit-transporting vessels, allow them to ignore the movement point of transporting vessels. In this way, players would find naval units much more valuable: protecting scouting land units and make the journey a bit faster.

I have not seen an AI constructed warsip yet (played two games till the end and explored the settled regions completely)

It is unclear to me how long a ship can survive out on deep sea: a clear indication would be helpful especially when this value changes

Non-gunpoweder ships cannot attack land targets - suggest to allow them to attack as well and increase their range to 2 so that they are not sitting and looking useless in tactical battles :) They can still have shorter range then base archers and aroun same damage but need to be able to do something

Naval trade routes have not been created on my games - this is absolutely needed to make inldand seas interesting. Establishing and then protecting (raiding other) trade routes should be a mayor focus point of naval combat

Guys, is it a bug or feature that after discovering Great Blue Hole every single coastal tile starts proviing +4 science? Seems really weird

AndreyP wrote:

Guys, is it a bug or feature that after discovering Great Blue Hole every single coastal tile starts proviing +4 science? Seems really weird

That is the Legacy Trait of the Joseon Culture (+4 science on coastal tiles & lake tiles). It is quite good for picking up tons of science especially so with multiple harbors in each territory (via EQs). 

RNGZero wrote:

AndreyP wrote:

Guys, is it a bug or feature that after discovering Great Blue Hole every single coastal tile starts proviing +4 science? Seems really weird

That is the Legacy Trait of the Joseon Culture (+4 science on coastal tiles & lake tiles). It is quite good for picking up tons of science especially so with multiple harbors in each territory (via EQs). 

If someone were to substitute "overpowered" for "quite good", I wouldn't argue with them.  I like the science-from-coast idea - much better than +X% - but the amount of science seems a bit much relative to other sources.

Unfortunately I never really got to experience much with naval gameplay.  At first I didn't realize I even needed a harbor (which is admittedly pretty silly of me), and I was confused when I could not figure out how to build caravels.

Now that I understand about troop transports, the idea sounds great!  Embarked units are often overlooked in other games, so that they can provide their own defense and offense reduces the overhead needed to get into the ocean game.  I never got to experiment much with trade routes, so I don't know how they work.  Whether it's because the game ended too soon for AI to exploit the ocean, or my lack of push into generating money, I never saw a reason to go strongly into navy.  Historically, it seems like countries really started investing in navies as a combination of trade (managing trade routes) and defense (of trade routes and new colonies).  I did not see a good way to raid trade routes or "coastal" cities/harbors in game, so I saw no benefit to building strictly naval units.  Maybe if these trade routes were emphasized more, especially between cities with luxury resources, there could be more reason for building up raiders/defensive navies in-game.

I did travel to the new world (and was the first to do so).  The concept of the settler unit really intrigues me, as I feel like in other similar games it always seems to be the oldest cities that were my best.  That you can give a boost to building new cities is definitely a good idea.  I'm personally hoping that as we progress into later eras, it gets significantly harder to control some of these "colonies" without heavy investment.  Something like that could even allow you to temporarily imbalance the game (via money/trade) only to later "punish" for distant colonies to bring balance back.  Seems like it could be a fun (and potentially infuriating) concept to me!

- I was disappointed to see the AI build no ships at all  until early modern era. I had two wars in my runthrough and I had no fight on sea at all. There wasn't even a goal for me to attack.

- I used the boats for exploration and unveiled most of the map. But I couldn't get the exploration fame bonuses and I don't understand why.

- I didn't understand why sometimes autoexplore worked just fine and sometimes it automatically switched off autoexplore.

- I like the feature that you can move to deep waters but the limit grows with better ships and better tech researched.

conclusion: I think naval gameplay needs some improvement yet. AI needs to build more ships at least in a sea-rich map, Maybe allow going through ennemy coastal territoriy even if you don't have open borders but causing greavances by doing so.

I did not get a chance to thoroughly explore naval gameplay, as I was much more focussed on other things and before I knew it the game was ending in 25 turns. I did however, spend a long time in my first playthrough trying to work out just how to embark units. The tooltip was telling me I did not have a required technology, but it would be helpful to see what technology that was. When you scroll to the technology in the tech tree, its not glaringly evident that the transport ship is the tech that unlocks embarkment; I was under the impression this was a unit, but all the playthroughs I'd watched the units just automatically embarked. I suggest either changing the transport ship to just text rather than an image so it doesn't look like another unit AND definitely making it so that the movement blocked tooltip IDENTIFIES the missing tech. Thankyou so much for the opportunity to test this game I am very keen.

A more complete feedback from my end after two playthroughs (one on hard, one on very hard). An avid CIV player, I cannot not benchmark Humankind against it.

Overall

1. it's alright
2. it's serviceable
3. I don't feel like Russell Crowe in Master and Commander (which, for me personally, is a pity)

Feedback

1. if naval combat should be a priority in the grand scheme of OpenDev feedback epics and user stories, consider sprucing it up by making it distinct from land combat:
   - positioning and manoeuvring should play a larger role during combat. Ships aren't able to turn 90 degrees on the dot, much less 180. This would provide another point of differentiation for cultures, as more manoeuvrable ships could use less movement points in order to get into position, for example.
   - following the above, broadsides, front and rear cannons, etc, would come into play.
   - ship boarding should be a thing as well.
2. four movement points for a cog feels unnecessarily restrictive. Should be at least 5.
3. stowed units should not get lost at sea.

Eh, I dunno, maybe because I wasn't far enough into tech tree, but naval gameplay felt blend, especially compared to Enldess Legend: Tempest.

Also, "retreat" is stupidly OP on water. You literally can't attack anyone or ever be attacked by endlessly retreating.

•  We were supposed to have more chances to test naval combat in Victor, but frankly there wasn’t much of a point, or any opportunities  whenever I did build naval units. The AI certainly didn’t build many fleets. There are some changes to naval units that I think could be made to incentivize their play and make them more interesting, but one of the big ones are that I think we need more naval units per era prior to the early modern, like even a light and heavy cruiser type would add more options. We could have Pentekonters (light) and Triremes (heavy) in the Ancient, then Lembos (light) and Quadriremes (heavy) in the Classical Era, and so on for the Medieval. It might be a slightly arbitrary distinction, historically speaking, but light vessels could be faster, weaker and have ranged attacks, while the larger vessels would be slower,  stronger, and be boarding vessels that engage in close-combat like         melee units on land. There just isn’t a lot of depth to the unit types currently. The short ranges of ranged naval units also feels quite arbitrary right now, as I’m not sure why bows on land have a range of 3 but at sea have a range of 1. Naval units should be able to fire at units on the coast, even during the Ancient Era.

• Another problem with naval units right now is that they are slow and have no ability to interact with the land. I hate using naval units, especially transports, without getting the Lighthouse of Alexandria (it’s the only Wonder I get every time). It doesn’t make a lot of sense to me that ships, especially transports are so slow. If the purpose is to make it more difficult to cross high seas during early eras, perhaps coastal ships and navigators could just treat open sea as rough terrain? It would also be great if naval units could establish outposts on the coast or have some other use even when there is nobody else to fight on the open seas.

Here's my shortnened opinion about navy:
I posted my full opinion here if you're interested

MAP

First of all, I found the map to be a strange pick for naval focus.
You can exclusively use land unit to explore/conquer the main continent. And most of the seas are made out of ocean tile, making sea exploration irrelevant for 2/3 of the game.

But anyway, back to navy.

USES

The main problem for me is the fact that there is no real use of navy in the game.

Comparing them to land units, navy is stronger, have more vision and movements on sea. But they cannot create outposts, do not have any impact on land battles (or very little at best), cannot ransack much.

Moreover, the fact that number outclass quality very quickly on water makes it so you are better off by having lots of embarqued units than having navy.

The only meaningfull use of navy as such is exploration. But even then, they cannot create outposts to expand.

RANGE

One of my main suggestion about navy would be to change the range of warships and embarqued units.

For Warships it would be more relevant to give them something similar to ranged unit in the same era. And maybe even bombardement ability in industrial, or the ability to crush fortification.

As for embarqued units, they should have melee attack instead. This alone would nullify the fact that lots of embarqued can fight easily against less navy. Which is coherent regarding the fact that land units are not meant for sea battles.

EMBARQUED UNITS

UI: I find the fact that you shows the land unit instead of the vessel quite strange.

Land Bonus: This should not be relevant in water.

TERRAIN

The lack of terrain in water (appart for coastal/ocean) is sad and makes water battle this much unexiting.

I mean, you could have wind, currents, reefs and lots more!

Even some current tiles could have changes, like when navy attack a land units standing on a beach vs reefs. When navy stands on pearls/harbours/oil/etc.

OUTPOST

In my opinion, navy should be able to plant outposts.

MERGING LAND & SEA

This should provide additional movement and would alone greatly incentivise the use of navy, to grant movement boost. (From 3 movement to 4 or 5 for example)

PHOENICIANS

This culture makes no sense to me. Because they would be really strong on water, but cannot make any use of it.

They would really be nice if they could embark before others (with the Bireme?), because as they are, they cannot shine as they are meant to.

And what is the point of having a Bireme, when other cannot embark yet or have any meaningful impact with navy?

This was my current opinion about navy.

But I also saw a couple of things here that I would like to mention

Limited to 1 harbour? I must differ with some of you, I find the fact that Harbours are limited to 1 per region to be really nice.
At the moment, those quarter are very powerfull, they really are a must in your cities. And since you can only make one in each territories, it makes them that much more valuable.
Also, it makes Naval Cultures that much relevant as well, because they can use navy in more effective ways due to them having more harbours.

Build more on coast: However, I must agree for the fact that players lacks any incentive to build on coast tiles (for possible ransack uses on coasts).

This could be resolved by giving adjacency bonuses on harbours or by enabling construction next to harbours.

Quicker navy: This would be really nice indeed. It would be an incentive to have more embarqued unit on sea and would feel more natural.

I also think all suggestions of @PotatoesAreBland (here) are very interesting and worth a shot. (1. navy ranskack inland / 2. movement / 3. Vision / 4. Colonizing / 5. Embarqued units / 6. Damaged ship / 7.8. Elephants on water?)

Canal? I also like the idea to build canals to makes navy more mobile.

But in this regard, you could also makes it so that navy could use rivers?

tomatopp1 wrote:

OUTPOST

In my opinion, navy should be able to plant outposts.

Agree: This would instantly make navy extremely valauble right from the start

They would only be able to place outpost on coastal tiles so to get a better position it would need to be moved inland anyhow so its not like they would be OP by establishing them

Zolobolo wrote:

Agree: This would instantly make navy extremely valauble right from the start

They would only be able to place outpost on coastal tiles so to get a better position it would need to be moved inland anyhow so its not like they would be OP by establishing them

Yeah, and if navy could ransack coast tiles this could create interesting navy wars over who own the land

Because until the outpost are not relocated, it would be very easy to ransack it for navy

(And we would also have a real use for relocating outpost)

PotatoesAreBland wrote:

[...] I'll point out that re: terrain & weather they have implemented this in Endless Legend so I imagine there are plans. If not on release to have it.

Oh! I didn't know since it has been a while I played EL

But this is really promising and reassuring to hear. At least it means they already tried things with sea, so they have experience regarding this

It may be in a future DLC as well