Hello,

Depending of the way you play and the settings you use, you might think they appear when you reach the ancient era but, If I'm remembering right, you need 8 population to do so, which you can't miss playing in endless speed but can not have if you get you play in normal speed and get your star(s) fast and go up with 5 tribes and only 1 or 2 outposts which did not get the time to get enough population.

I can't look at your saves, so I must ask: do you fill the requirement to unlock those two civics?
You can mouse over the civics to see what's needed if I'm not mistaken (Bolivar update?)

Thank you, I will play on and check this criteria.

May I know if the 8 pops are including units, or just 8 pops in the city?

If I recall, it's 8 pops including units, which should also equal 8 pops according to your Agrarian Star progress.