Hello there, do you mean you don't understand why this choice would give you a shift toward Homeland? 

Ben

Hello, Ben!

Yes, the issue here is that judging by the description of the choices present in this civic the "Fellow peoples" option feels like it should be the "World'ly" option, while the "Mercenary Armies" is a more military-oriented "Homeland" option, but currently in-game their axis shifts feel inverted. pardon me if I was wrong to assume that this is a bug and not an intended experience.

Hi, thank you for your report.

We filed an issue for this bug.

Thanks for your help!

Kinet wrote:

Hello, Ben!

Yes, the issue here is that judging by the description of the choices present in this civic the "Fellow peoples" option feels like it should be the "World'ly" option, while the "Mercenary Armies" is a more military-oriented "Homeland" option, but currently in-game their axis shifts feel inverted. pardon me if I was wrong to assume that this is a bug and not an intended experience.

No worries, I just wanted to understand. I'll see with the writers if there is something we could do asap to make it better ;)

Thanks again! Every feedback is more than welcomed 

Have a very nice evening

Ben

Prior to the Independent People update the civic offered

-50% mercenary army cost -> +4 WORLD

-50% assimilate cost -> +4 HOMELAND (they become your people, or at least their lands)

It looks like in the update the 2nd option was changed to

-50% treaty cost with independent people -> +4 HOMELAND (so, the flavor is a bit, off)

The way I see the axes:

Socialism vs Capitalism
Populism vs Globalism
Freedom vs Authority
Faith vs Science

You could argue -50% treaty cost options is a better fit for World (Globalism).

But then what would the mercenaries option influence?

It's something an imperialist power would use. Should that strengthen Homeland, Individualism or Authority. Hard to say, there's flavor and balancing to consider.

Waykot wrote:

benblond wrote:
No worries, I just wanted to understand. I'll see with the writers if there is something we could do asap to make it better ;)

Hello again @benblond, I'm taking advantage of your reply on this report to raise a question with another related civic : Cultural Blessing.

Would you mind also pass it to the writers to have their insights on the matter ?

Yesterday, on Discord, a player named Doc (https://discord.com/channels/227126593754103810/613079566784790564/1039986464856997958) asked about the wording of the right choice of the civic :

We tried together figuring out to what was refering "Fellow Peoples", eventually understanding that it was "assimilated Independent Peoples".

Here's Doc's savefile with the unlocked Cultural Blessing civic, in case it is useful

Achaemenid_Persians_Turn_108.ctr

We'd be interested to know why the former wording was replaced by "Fellow Peoples" with the current build ?

Thanks a lot in advance,

Have a great weekend !

The policy card used to say

"+10 Influence on Main Plaza and Administrative Center if Assimilated Peoples"

Which actually means Assimilated Cities from Independent People. (which does not work if you just liberate an outpost or city only to assimilate it later on, but you can gift an outpost to a roaming IP army without one)

I guess they replaced Assimilated Peoples with Fellow Peoples. Maybe they liked the wording more, but it is less clear.

I would rename it to "+10 Influence on Main Plaza and Administrative Center for Assimilated Cities". But there are many things to consider before making any changes (consistency, localization, lots of headaches I bet)

Ansive wrote:

I guess they replaced Assimilated Peoples with Fellow Peoples. Maybe they liked the wording more, but it is less clear.

I would rename it to "+10 Influence on Main Plaza and Administrative Center for Assimilated Cities". But there are many things to consider before making any changes (consistency, localization, lots of headaches I bet)

The new wording is quite unclear indeed, that's exactly the point.

"Assimilated Peoples" refers to the pre-Metternich assimilation process (using influence to assimilate the IP inside your empire), as well as the new "Assimilate" treaty with Metternich update. Consistency-wise, I think it is still relevant.

On the other hand, "Fellow peoples" -- though i can see the intent to link it to the "Fellow peoples" choice of the Independent Peoples civic -- is obviously less clear and consistent with the game's flavor texts/tooltips.

For reference, the Independent peoples civic "Fellow peoples" choice :

In terms of translation/localization, it also raises issues. As an example, it is translated in french as "Autres Peuples" (Other Peoples in english). "Fellow" in english (at least from my dictionary hehe), is either informal (guy, bloke, dude, ...) or formal (colleague, peer, member, ...), which conveys a sense of friendship, membership. Which, in game's logic, could be applied to Major Empires. Thus, making the term and its implications all the more unclear.

All in all, for clarity and consistency's sake, "Assimilated (Independent) Peoples" should remain the term used in that case.

Hey there, today it's bank holliday in france, so I won't be able to reach the writers until monday, but that's a good remark indeed! 

I'll see what I can do and let you know

Have a great weekend!

Ben

benblond wrote:

Hey there, today it's bank holliday in france, so I won't be able to reach the writers until monday, but that's a good remark indeed! 

I'll see what I can do and let you know

Have a great weekend!

Ben

Thank you for taking this into account ! :)

Have a great weekend too !