This may be a bug/exploit/question/wondering/suggestion. I haven't played the game for at least 2 major updates so I am not sure what is what. I just find the following a weird scenario.
In the attached game file, I force the enemy to surrender and take 2 of their territories and end the war with 88 war support to their 0 war support going down to 0 for us both (Turn 64).
Next turn (turn 65), they get 4 grievances triggered and immediately demand the two territories. I couldn't see the grievances but from the 2 different causes of the demands ( as shown in pics), I assume the grievances were because of the enemy's influence and religion still in my newly captured 2 territories (2 X 2 = 4). [Possible Bug] Not sure if they should count as 4 instead of 2 since the targets/demands would be the same. But any way, I continue the turn with refusing the demands before their war support increases by ongoing 7 WS per turn + the instant 20 WS next turn from the 4 grievances. They instantly declare war with 4 war support to my 2 war support. [Possible Bug] Also Note in the pics that the tooltip counts 10 instant WS for 1 refused demand even though I refused 2 demands for 2 territories. Being unable to reach the enemy to attack in attempt to raise any war support before it falls down to 0, I am forced to end the turn (Turn 65) as it is.
Next turn (Turn 66), My war support falls to 0 and am forced to surrender losing to the enemy the 2 territories I took + 1 territory of my own + of course some money..
I was supposed to be the victor here but all I got is 650 money for losing one of my territories which I don't really consider a win since I have no control over it. :D
Suggestion: If all this is intended (not a bug/exploit), Maybe at least we could have the option to keep some of our winning WS at the end of war instead of losing it all for money. So we are not that vulnerable afterwards in such a scenario.
- Force enemy to surrender while accepting the 2 territories: "Pincoya" and "Zaniah". - End turn 64. - Refuse enemy's demands in turn 65. - End turn 65.
- Observe war end miserably in turn 66.
Expected Behavior:
Not sure, But I should be the victor here somehow.
Strong agree. I like the idea of the victor (and probably also the loser) resetting to 20-30 war support instead of 0. Being at 0 at the end of the war makes you susceptible to too much hijinx with territory ownership like this, or with Embassy Actions.
It's a rare case, because they are kinship with you. We pretty much never lost war support in defending a war.
But yeah, I'm still agree war support at 0, with embassy action available, is really hard to not open a weakness here with someone else.
Otherwise, I'm still feeling the difference of grievance really nice after a war. It's like a lot of war between France / Germany about Alsatian Moselle. When one country take it, the other one was really not happy about the result because "he know" this territory was his culture before the lost. (Or Crimea / Russia / Ukraine today)
It's a rare case, because they are kinship with you. We pretty much never lost war support in defending a war.
But yeah, I'm still agree war support at 0, with embassy action available, is really hard to not open a weakness here with someone else.
Otherwise, I'm still feeling the difference of grievance really nice after a war. It's like a lot of war between France / Germany about Alsatian Moselle. When one country take it, the other one was really not happy about the result because "he know" this territory was his culture before the lost. (Or Crimea / Russia / Ukraine today)
kinship is from their Aesthete culture.. I am not sure I understand its effect on the situation though.. I was defending in both wars so cultural proximity was on my side. I was losing the 2 WS I had in second war because the 2 territories I captured were still under the enemy's influence temporarily.
I have no problem with the reality of getting grievances for losing territories. In fact I even believe having some war support after the war is more realistic as a kind of grudge kept by the 2 waring sides, people don't just cool off over night. And that having war support after a war would still make a 2nd revenge/counter war more realistic and playable in game terms instead of it ending in 1 turn as a surprise.
I don't think forced peace can work in Humankind because you can't stop grievances from happening. And you would still need the option to declare war if your demands/grievances are refused.
To be clear, the "double grievances" bug is more a not-very-clear-feedback bug. The grievances are actually 4, because they are "oppressing my people" and "oppressing the faithful", for two territories. The problem is that the AI transforms them into demands straight away, and since you cannot demand the same territory twice, it looks like the grievances were doubled if you just look at the war-support breakdown in the tooltip. However, we appreciate that it can be confusing.
To be clear, the "double grievances" bug is more a not-very-clear-feedback bug. The grievances are actually 4, because they are "oppressing my people" and "oppressing the faithful", for two territories. The problem is that the AI transforms them into demands straight away, and since you cannot demand the same territory twice, it looks like the grievances were doubled if you just look at the war-support breakdown in the tooltip. However, we appreciate that it can be confusing.
Romani0
Newcomer
Romani0
Newcomer
6 400g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report Romani0?
Are you sure you want to block Romani0 ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock Romani0 ?
UnblockCancelVIPRedSirus
Kind Enthusiast
VIPRedSirus
Kind Enthusiast
32 200g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report RedSirus?
Are you sure you want to block RedSirus ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock RedSirus ?
UnblockCancelElphealer
Timer
Create your worlds, create your games. And Share it !
Elphealer
Timer
34 400g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report Elphealer?
Are you sure you want to block Elphealer ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock Elphealer ?
UnblockCancelRomani0
Newcomer
Romani0
Newcomer
6 400g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report Romani0?
Are you sure you want to block Romani0 ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock Romani0 ?
UnblockCancelElphealer
Timer
Create your worlds, create your games. And Share it !
Elphealer
Timer
34 400g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report Elphealer?
Are you sure you want to block Elphealer ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock Elphealer ?
UnblockCancelAnsive
Newcomer
Ansive
Newcomer
12 900g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report Ansive?
Are you sure you want to block Ansive ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock Ansive ?
UnblockCancelRomani0
Newcomer
Romani0
Newcomer
6 400g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report Romani0?
Are you sure you want to block Romani0 ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock Romani0 ?
UnblockCancelDEVCimiur
Dev Team
DEVCimiur
Dev Team
21 700g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report Cimiur?
Are you sure you want to block Cimiur ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock Cimiur ?
UnblockCancelRomani0
Newcomer
Romani0
Newcomer
6 400g2g ptsReport comment
Why do you report Romani0?
Are you sure you want to block Romani0 ?
BlockCancelAre you sure you want to unblock Romani0 ?
UnblockCancel