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Seperate Queue for Units

Military

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a year ago
Aug 1, 2023, 1:55:59 PM


I'm proposing a separate queue for units, which means you'd be able to build structures and units at the same time in a single city. Having a separate queue for units has a lot of benefits and less negatives than you'd think. 

 

Balancing

The way creating units works in Humankind is every unit costs population. By making a city's output more reliant on population that basically fixes the balance problem that would be created by making the queues separate. You can't keep making units because with zero population you'd have very little production which means you can't build structures/gain science or gold.

 

Additionally, units have an upkeep cost which means you can't keep creating a bigger army because it becomes more and more expensive.

 

Benefits

It fixes deficiency problems for military focused cultures. A military culture can easily fall behind when it's only making military units every turn instead of investing in science and production. Usually, they make up for this by conquering other cities but if they don't succeed, they lose their entire investment (their army) and are now massively behind. A separate queue fixes this problem by letting them create their army while also building infrastructure albeit at a slower rate because of less population.

 

It also fixes defense problems for non-military cultures and makes games more fun for them. Most of these kinds of cultures don't make an army until they are attacked. Which means they miss out on a big part of the game before that time. An is not just for offense and defense it's also for exploration, hunting animals and small skirmishes. It's a fun part of the game which non-military cultures often don't partake in because they'd rather focus on their structures. A separate queue fixes this problem by making building units more accessible because they won't be totally halting their intended strategy to produce units.

 

It would fix naval warfare. Amplitude is trying to fix naval warfare by improving naval warfare. The way I see it it's not a naval warfare problem, it's a production problem. You can only produce one thing in a city at a time, which means you always pick the most cost-effective option. For warfare land units are almost always superior simply because they're more flexible. A separate queue vastly improves the production problem because now you're no longer choosing between land units, naval units, districts and structures, but instead just land and naval units.

 

Cultural balance changes

A separate unit queue gives agricultural cultures a much-needed boost without making them overpowered because you still need money for unit upkeep. It's also a nerf for gold focused cultures because they were previously the only ones able to make structures and units at the same time by simply purchasing them. Now everyone can do it without needing to be a millionaire.

 

Negatives

As I hope you've now realized units in Humankind are already well balanced enough for this change to happen. But one negative I can still think of is player incompetence. Incompetent players/noobs might always be creating units just because they think the queue should never be empty causing their population and gold to drain without them realizing why. A disclaimer with a short explanation of the cost of units should be sufficient

Updated 6 days ago.
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a year ago
Aug 2, 2023, 5:04:54 PM

I agree wholeheartedly with this change, but where would the units be built and how would you determine what amount of production would get used to build them?

Wald

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a year ago
Aug 3, 2023, 10:11:33 AM

Reduced production efficiency rather than a halting of any district/wonder production when making an army, could be an interesting change; the current state of the game does make having a significant military presence feel like an investment that you can not engage with, as a bit of a gamble.


This does, however, feel like it is by design and has created interesting situations in the saves that I have played where the minor drawback or committing that production to a military has a pay off in the production of other empires that can be, effectively, stolen with the units (where, the units themselves may even survive and go on creating 'value', in that sense).


If HUMANKIND were to have a system implemented that delineates between a 'military' queue and a 'city' queue, so to speak, I think Nomad units, such as the Hunnic Horde or Mongol Horde, may interact strangely with the concept.


However, I think it'd be interesting as a system for players that like be play aggressively and passively, and the added benefit of being able to engage with the expansion content without feeling punished by limited production would be great, too, as making an Envoy/Spies can feel like a teensy bit like bloat, at times, as much as I love Together We Rule; I could get used to this/be excited about this, as a change.

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a year ago
Aug 7, 2023, 7:44:44 AM

There's a question of how much Industry should be used on those units and now that I think about it, maybe none? This is pure theorycrafting, because it would need a chunky rebalance for FIMSI I don't think we'd get, considering how much it would change, but what if the Food and/or Money was used in that queue for an output? Have a toggle to use one, other or both, or a Civic that would govern which (Levies or Mercenaries? Maybe even just roll it into Army Composition, Conscripts allow using only Food, Professional Soldiers just Money and Food+Money would be default). It also goes without saying that the city would not pool Food or Money while there are units in the queue, so just keeping it busy all the time either drains your vaults at higher rate or stops growth.


I do wonder if it wouldn't work best in tandem with return of the Generals (or whatever was governing a hard cap on amount of armies in the earliest OpenDevs).

Updated a year ago.
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a year ago
Aug 10, 2023, 7:45:24 PM

I agree with Tasty01 Humankind Dev"s shoud add a new queue for unit because it's will open many things and balance possibility, many bonus with military civ ect ... 

allez les gars en plus c'est pas compliqué à codé faut faire dupliquer hein .. :p  

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