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Religion Affinity, New Religion Mechanics, and Possible Religious Cultures

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a year ago
Jul 1, 2023, 7:29:11 AM

Since we've got a new affinity with the last expansion, there are no more excuses not to make religion an affinity of its own.


And it should come with new game mechanics, of course.


I think that religion shouldn't be about who founds a faith and paints the whole map its color. This is a very limited way to represent religion and ultimately, it's just a variation of a domination game. Religion should feel as its own thing, and more than that, it should somehow reflect how religion worked throughout human history. If we take, for example, the history of Christianity and Buddhism, we see that most of the nations these beliefs thrived and developed are not the ones in which they were founded. In certain cases, such as Buddhism and Christianity, they became more prevalent in nations other than their own meanwhile in their own homeland (Israel and India), they never really stood out as the dominant religion.


The only way to make religion mirror this real life phenomenon is not to tie a religion with just one player: religion should naturally transcend borders, be adopted by other cultures, and changes over time and over the devotees own experiences. Take Christianity as an example, it was founded by Helenized Jews in Roman dominated Israel, but eventually it was systematized by the Romans, and many centuries later it was reformed by English and German protestants. There is a sense of universality in the World Religions, of being part of a brotherhood that is beyond all national borders. In medieval Europe, for example, a common person would identify him/herself first as a Christian, and only then with his/her homeland and race. If religion is treated as a monopoly of the culture who created it, well, we lose this sense of universality that all World Religions have.


Okay, but how could this be translated into the game? There's a distinction between World Religions and more localized/tribal religions. So every culture would eventually develop their own local religion, however, a World Religion could be founded under very specific game circunstances, and the cultures with Religious affinity would have an advantage to do so. The player who founds a religion would earn fame and the territory in which that religion was founded would become a holy land. This player could also found other religions, just like China founded Confucionism and Taoism, India founded Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, and Israel founded Judaism and Christianity. A World Religion would spread easily through the borders and would earn adapts over time. There would be concils in which the players who follow this religion would participate and decide the core tenets of this religion. In this case, if a player that isn't the founder has more followers, his vote in these concils would weigh more than the others. In case of a draw, a Schism could ensue.


The same way that a religion doesn't belong to the player who founded it, every empire could have followers of every religion and would participate in the events of that religion. Depending on the situation, it could lead to a civil holy war, just like happened in France during the Protestant Reformation, or in Ireland in the second half of the twentieth century. 


Every religion has its own bonus and a city with people of different religions would benefit from all them. However, the bonuses should be proportionate to the number of followers of a religion. It could be even possible that different religions could have bonuses that conflict with one another, being mutually exclusive. If a player chose a religion to be his/her State religion, it would somehow enhance this one and discourage the others. Certain cultures (or civics) could benefit from a more tolerant approach to multireligiosity whereas other would be more inquisitive.


Some religions could have a Pope, which very similar to the concils, could be elected among the players who follow this religion and the player with more followers of this particular religion could have more chances to be elected.


As for some Religious Cultures, I suggest:


Ancient Era: Israel - with a LT related either to the holy land or to the facility that is religion would spread and develop.

Classical Era: Maurya - with a LT that benefits from multireligiosity

Medieval Era: Irish - with a LT related to monasteries and scholarship







Updated 7 days ago.
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a year ago
Jul 2, 2023, 1:07:07 PM

Good points and ideas. I'm offering ideas here and would encourage you to explain what you would do differently (I'm not 100% sure I got everything you were explaining ^^' )


  1. Start with polytheism or shamanism as usual
  2. Adopting your first tenet forms a "local religion"
  3. A local religion is "upgraded" to "world religion" status when it gathers enough followers (and/or other conditions are met)
  4. World religions have their tenets selected via a council of the faithful
  5. Rejecting a decision of a council of the faithful can cause a schism and/or a Holy War
  6. New tenets about how the religion is organized (how does the council of the faithful works? is there a central figure like a Pope? Is there a Holy land? A Holy See? A Sacred Temple? A Sacred City?). For example, a world religion with a Holy City could have the player controlling the Holy City make decisions on behalf of the council (with some exceptions requiring a full council vote, like when to declare a Holy War).
  7. World religions have event and bonuses applied to all followers (the more followers of the religion you have, the greater the impact - this incentivize cooperation instead of systematically causing schisms every era)
  8. Religions with competing interests/beliefs/demands will create "religious tensions" and lower stability, thus incentivizing uniformity for empire struggling to stay afloat. Inversely, "Religious unity" would grant stability bonuses. This would create a balancing act between collecting various religious bonuses and focusing on growing specific one(s).
  9. Creating a Schism grants you with a local religions sharing the same tenets as the World religion you splintered from, with the contested tenet replaced (cause of the schism). Such religion can be upgraded to a World religion if enough people adopt it.
  10. Local religions sharing the same tenets can trigger an event offering them to merge. If both councils of the faithful agree, the local religions are merged and may be elevated to World Religion status if the conditions are met. This can allow a schism to be mended. A reunified church would have many followers and thus greater bonuses, but individual players' control over it would be diluted in the bigger council of the faithful (which could be irrelevant if the religions uses a Pope instead).
  11. "Religious proximity" metric would be useful, akin to the "Cultural proximity" indicating how tolerant another empire is towards yours. Religious affinity could influence such a metric like the Aesthete does for the Cultural proximity.
  12. Changing state religion would cause a stability penalty. Entering a state of revolution due to a religion change would make it a civil holy war, with cost of changing religious civic/state religion lowered.
  13. Council/Pope can sanction a player, which causes the "Religious proximity" to be (artificailly) lowered for that player for the follwoers of the religion and followers in the target's empire will cause instability (and potentially a civil holy war if the unrest is too severe). This can pressure a player to conform with the rest of the religion's adherents or to leave the council through a schism. Being sanctioned by the religious authority of your state religion would cause greater impact than a non-state religion.
  14. Atheism would have the lowest possible "Religious proximity" with all religions and their followers always cause tensions/instability for empires with a state religion.
  15. Secularism would not be affected by Atheism's instability, but is still susceptible to religious sanctions instabilities (all treated as a non-state religions).

[EDIT: Changed the format for a numbered list to ease discussion]

Updated a year ago.
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a year ago
Jul 2, 2023, 7:34:47 PM

Hello, Tryford! Thank you so much for your enthusiasm and your contribution. I really liked your ideas and I will comment them in the following messages.

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a year ago
Jul 2, 2023, 8:44:58 PM
- Start with polytheism or shamanism as usual
- Adopting your first tenet forms a "local religion"

- A local religion is "upgraded" to "world religion" status when it gathers enough followers (and/or other conditions are met)

- World religions have their tenets selected via a council of the faithful
- Rejecting a decision of a council of the faithful can cause a schism and/or a Holy War

I will comment little by little so it would be easier to handle. I really like how you organized your topics. 


Well, yes. Every culture would eventually develop its local religion, probably after gathering a certain amount of faith, and this local religion would be basically what we already have as Shamanism and Polyteism. However, I think that every local religion could choose a tenet - or maybe more than one - and the tenets of the local religions are different from the ones of the world religions. This tenet of the local religion would be longlasting, regardless of the world religions present in the empire. This way, we could grant that even the peoples who follow the same world religion have some localized colour which is a result of a religious syncretism. 


As for how a world religion forms, I really like the idea of having a certain amount of followers and/or faith, but probably we should also research a technology and/or unlock a civic. Whatever would be the conditions to form a religion, once they are met, a prophet would appear and he/she would found a world religion. A world religion is a byproduct of its local religion and as so, the first tenet of a world religion should always be aligned with it. Let's say that the local religion tenet is a militaristic one, in order to create the new world religion, you must choose for you base tenet also a militaristic one. I'm considering the idea that when you found a religion, other than the base tenet, you could also choose other two, which could be of any kind. if that's the case, we could have a diffence between base tenets and additional tenets, being the base tenets the ones that grants more bonuses. (let's say, 15% more than it it was a mere additional tenet).


The player who founds a religion selects its core tenets, however, as the game progresses and the religion spreads out, there would be concils of the faithful and the new tenets of this religion would be voted by the players. The more folowers of this religion a player have, the more power he would have in those decisions. There would have a possibility of schisms during these concils of the faithful and it would be a result of a draw. So let's say we have 6 players in the concil. Two of them have the majority of the followers and they choose different tenets. If during the negotiations they do not agree with each other - I think that there should be a possibility for negotiating it - a schism could be the result. A faith that springs from a world religion would also be a world religion. Conversely, I also like the idea that a schism could emerge as a result of not accepting the result a Concil of the Faithful.


A player has also the ability to found more than one religion.


A side commentary:

I'm also considering the possibility that not all tenets are available to be selected during a Concil of the Faithful. Probably the pool of choices should be limited to the inclination of the empires that partake in it. Let's take Protestantism as an exemple. If you see the core tenets of the Catholic Church, especially during the medieval era, they were very non materialistic and even condemned certain monetary practices. But the tenets of Protestantism are much aligned with Capitalism. Maybe the pool of choices could be a result of certain aspects of the cultures that are thriving, in spite of the cultures affinities. This way, we could make the choices reflect how the peoples are developing during the game. If that's the case, the player who has more followers of that culture would delimitate more the possible tenets to be chosen, but the other ones also influentiates, proportionally to their number of followers.


I'll comment your other topics later.



Updated a year ago.
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a year ago
Jul 7, 2023, 2:02:04 PM
3ldr1g0 wrote:
I'm also considering the possibility that not all tenets are available to be selected during a Concil of the Faithful. Probably the pool of choices should be limited to the inclination of the empires that partake in it.

I think that this could be implemented easily by using the ideology axes. This would further promote "ideology blocks" of alliances as the game progresses, which I'm in favour of (I really liked the revolutionary waves in Civ5 BNW).


And thanks for the detailed response! 

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a year ago
Jul 26, 2023, 1:00:23 PM

Agreed. "Religious" or "religionist" would make the most sense for a 9th culture type. It's actually been something I have speculated about since before Humankind was released, as well as the diplomatic affinity added in Together We Rule.


I think this affinity would be the best fit for a dedicated expansion pack, although equally I do feel as though some cultures already in the game could be reclassed as religious, such as the Olmecs or Spanish.

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a year ago
Jul 27, 2023, 7:22:24 PM
conorbebe wrote:

Agreed. "Religious" or "religionist" would make the most sense for a 9th culture type. It's actually been something I have speculated about since before Humankind was released, as well as the diplomatic affinity added in Together We Rule.


I think this affinity would be the best fit for a dedicated expansion pack, although equally I do feel as though some cultures already in the game could be reclassed as religious, such as the Olmecs or Spanish.

I agreed about the Olmecs and Spanish. I also feel that the Maurya falls into this category. Thanks for commenting.

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10 months ago
Jan 9, 2024, 12:29:38 PM

Perhaps we can start by defining the Religious Affinity:


Gains Fame by converting population to the State Religion (this also applies to Shamanism/Polytheism)


  • Affinity Bonus: Zeal/Fervor/Devotion/Devoutness/Evangelism or Ardor (Pick a preferred name)

Military units can help spread Religion on owned and occupied Territories (feels broken)


  • Affinity Action: Mass Conversion

Spend Influence to convert a target City. Takes some turns (varies by population and/or Territory size?).

Passive Religious Spread still works, the Affinity Action provides a local temporary boost.


  • Transcendence Bonus: Strong Believers or Unshakable Faith (Pick a preferred name)

+5% Faith (or +10% if it is not enough)



Based on the Together We Rule Expansion Pack which introduces new units, the same can be done there. This means introducing a Missionary unit with the purpose of converting Population (domestically and abroad). This would be the way to gain Fame.


However this would also require a rework for the Irreligion Civic. It would be unfair for Secularists and Atheists to not being able to gain Fame.

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10 months ago
Jan 16, 2024, 12:43:25 AM
Navarobirsk wrote:

Perhaps we can start by defining the Religious Affinity:


Gains Fame by converting population to the State Religion (this also applies to Shamanism/Polytheism)


  • Affinity Bonus: Zeal/Fervor/Devotion/Devoutness/Evangelism or Ardor (Pick a preferred name)

Military units can help spread Religion on owned and occupied Territories (feels broken)


  • Affinity Action: Mass Conversion

Spend Influence to convert a target City. Takes some turns (varies by population and/or Territory size?).

Passive Religious Spread still works, the Affinity Action provides a local temporary boost.


  • Transcendence Bonus: Strong Believers or Unshakable Faith (Pick a preferred name)

+5% Faith (or +10% if it is not enough)



Based on the Together We Rule Expansion Pack which introduces new units, the same can be done there. This means introducing a Missionary unit with the purpose of converting Population (domestically and abroad). This would be the way to gain Fame.


However this would also require a rework for the Irreligion Civic. It would be unfair for Secularists and Atheists to not being able to gain Fame.

I really liked your ideas! 

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