I'm not off the top of my head sure what T2 Glass/Titan looks like compared to T3, or what T2 titan/glass looks like compared to iron, but I'm willing to bet it's a hell of a lot less of a losing proposition than iron is. Not that I'm saying that there doesn't need balancing, I'm just saying that if you have Iron gear going up against researched gear you shouldn't have a hell of a lot of hope to win aside form the fact that you can pump out way more units.



Production time and/or dust cost is a factor here.

play2learn wrote:
In my last game yesterday there was another thing, which doesn't seem right. The dust t1 helmet or chest (don't know exactly anymore) had the exactly same stats than the iron t3.

Considering you get them at era 4 (and cost dust + iron T3 you get at era 3) they bloody well should.

They could be even a bit better

Tier 3 longspear, iron:



24 attack

8 defense

4 initiative

12 damage.



Tier 3 longspear, glassteel.



24 attack

8 defense

40 initiative

40 damage.



Once again my group has to instill a no titanum/glassteel weapon policy because that's absurd. 12 damage against 40 damage? Especially when you can get these at tier 2 off a random quest reward. Once again titanium/glassteel needs to be brought down to a reasonable level. I suggest, once again, bringing down the bonuses to 10 initiative and 20 damage at most (on longspears), and then doing likewise for all the other tiers. Additionally I'd really recommend finally restricting these rewards so you can't get them in tier 2.



What is especially weird is that when looking at shields that titanium/glassteel is actually pretty balanced. I can get 10 defense and +10% HP with iron, or 10 defense and +20% attack or initiative with titanium/glassteel. That feels balanced to me. Getting over three times as much damage and 1000% the initiative is just insane.



To put this in to perspective if I was a vaulters player I would get 60 damage, and you would get 12 damage. And that would all be caused by me randomly finding this technology.

I entirely agree with hasinshin that getting a higher level weapons tech through a random exploration or quest can really ruin a game. In my most recent game it was T2 hyperium weapons. So, I jumped from +36 atk/ +18 dmg to +111 atk/ +64 dmg in one turn. In practical terms that meant going from being barely able to hold my cities against attacks to being untouchable and taking one or two cities per turn. The solution I'd suggest isn't to nerf the stats, but to implement restrictions before the items can be produced, eg- you can research L1 Titanium weapons at Tier 1, but you can't produce and equip them until you have L2 iron unlocked, likewise you could find or research T2 Titanium weapons at any point in the game, but you can't produce or equip them until you have L3 iron AND L1 Titanium unlocked.

Even at tier 3 you can clearly see how people using iron weapons would have literally no chance at all of fighting back.



No single technology gives as much power right now as the weapons.

Hello,



Thank you for the feedback! We'll keep improving the stats on the different equipments to provide a better balance. We'll look into restricting the unlock the Titanium / Glassteel unlock, in order to avoid unfairness.



Cheers,

Don't restrict the unlock - just balance them! Titanium and glass steel should be better than iron, however the amount of extra damage they do in comparison is absurd. Titanium is supposed to focus on attack, and glass steel on initiative - so just buff those stats, with only a small damage boost.

EcthelionHelm wrote:
Don't restrict the unlock - just balance them! Titanium and glass steel should be better than iron, however the amount of extra damage they do in comparison is absurd. Titanium is supposed to focus on attack, and glass steel on initiative - so just buff those stats, with only a small damage boost.

Actually, Titanium mainly boosts damage, Paladium boosts attack. If each strategic resources doesn't offer significant advantages over the lower level ones, then there would be no point in researching them, mining the resources and swapping equipment. That was the case three builds back. So, I don't see the current stats themselves as problematic. Getting weapons that are 3x better than what other players have 50 turns earlier than they do as a result of a simple exploration or quest, however, most definitely is a problem.

Getting weapons that are 3x better AT THEIR TIER is a serious issue. Getting them BEFORE that tier is a disaster.



This would be like if there was a technology that boosted your production by 300%. One technology should never offer the bonuses that current glassteel/titanium/other random stuff does. They should offer an alternative to iron that is better in their specific category.

Ironshield wrote:
Actually, Titanium mainly boosts damage, Paladium boosts attack. If each strategic resources doesn't offer significant advantages over the lower level ones, then there would be no point in researching them, mining the resources and swapping equipment. That was the case three builds back. So, I don't see the current stats themselves as problematic. Getting weapons that are 3x better than what other players have 50 turns earlier than they do as a result of a simple exploration or quest, however, most definitely is a problem.

This seems like a good place to ask, what's the difference between attack and damage?

levyesektor wrote:
This seems like a good place to ask, what's the difference between attack and damage?

Attack determines whether you deal no/half/full/double damage based on the ratio of your attack to opponent defense. Damage just dtermines the damage you deal.



Technically speaking getting into GOOD armour (T2+ Titanium/Glassteel) actually significantly lowers the advantage that T3 Titanium grants because your large amount of defense is opposed by the opponent's relatively ordinary attack stat.



Every player should be researching Armour and outfitting their units with an appropriate armour based on their strategy. No units should be left in Iron armour unless they're kamikaze attack forces.

Meedoc wrote:
Hello,



Thank you for the feedback! We'll keep improving the stats on the different equipments to provide a better balance. We'll look into restricting the unlock the Titanium / Glassteel unlock, in order to avoid unfairness.



Cheers,

Nice to hear.



Dont be too strong with the nerf, it is a secret tech of T3 weapon , it has to be very strong to extend the life of titanium/glassteel equipment and have any interest. As suggested above, maybe work on the constrains needed to unlock the tech (increase the player investment needed) or also the ressources quantities needed.



A small question about titanium/glassteel tech : before the 0.74 build there was a +10% efficiency for each tech, it was a good thing IMO because it created synegies between the tech and made them valuables (even the T1 ones); now that the bonuses have been removed, I fear that the T1 tech have very few value, what do you think?

I find all of the secret alloy/armor techs to be super strong, not just titanium and glassteel. I think it would be better if it just wasn't tied to RNG quest luck. It'd be better to formally place them in the research tree with prerequisites of the prior tiers + maybe an increased research cost. That way the decision on how far down the tier and which resource types to research is a more strategic decision. Right now, it's just plain luck of the draw.

Okay I don't know why I have to say this again but I will:



If ANY technology gives you more than double the damage of your opponent's weapons you will pretty much automatically win the game. It is not okay to have such a ludicrous advantage, ever. I don't know why this is even something we're still talking about. Even tier 4 dust weapons will have 12 damage, and you're gonna have 40 damage in tier 2? That's absurd.

@hashinshin



I'm missing the thinking on why you think a default technology (Iron or Dust weapons), that requires no Strategic resources and no Research/questing should be as good as one that does.



What's the point of researching/questing for tech and building extractors/buying Strategics if the default stuff is just as/nearly as good?



I do believe that items need some balancing. However, the idea that weapons that are handed to you should be able to compete with ones that you have to earn seems wrong.