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How to prevent same faction appearing twice, if using random factions?

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9 years ago
May 19, 2016, 10:25:11 PM
I had the same feature request from the first time I played. The main reason I want unique AI factions is that I have a hard enough time keeping track AI is which in the geopolitical scene. It's even harder to remember whether it was the red Broken Lords or the blue Broken Lords that recently closed its orders to me.
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9 years ago
Sep 15, 2016, 1:07:30 PM

Random so that the player does not know by game start what factions are in the game could be quite hard (depending on how its done).


However, i would simply propose a solution to make a game less "tedious" to set up.


Currently, if i want a game with 6 players (5x AI) i will need to click at least 10 times, navigating between 2 menu's to put unique factions in.

While this is not a problem doing this once or twice, it quickly becomes tedious if you need to "start a new game"

(which is surprisingly frequent in MP) (map generation is not always stable, and sometimes players lose very early on (first 10-20 turns), or sometimes they leave very early etc)


I however do not see why there is no option to "Fill" AI slots with unique factions in the lobby (before any generation gets done)

(if someone else joins or swaps factions to an existing one, i will simply press the button again. So there is also no networking involved, since it would be the same as the host assigning those slots manually)


Not top-list priority, but for a small amount of work id say its definitely worth it.

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9 years ago
Aug 10, 2016, 7:47:28 PM

Amplitude has stated on numerous occasions that this is difficult to implement.

I dare say that I personally don't see it as a top priority.

I'd rather have them dedicate resources to an additional content pack (e.g. something similar to the Lost Tales) or some free content, or something else.


If you really wish to have random unique factions, you can for instance assign a number to each race, then generate some random numbers and thus have your set of opponents.

Here's something that may help : https://www.random.org/integer-sets/

I know it's not perfect because you'll be able to identify a race by just seeing its color on the map, but hey ... it's something ^^

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9 years ago
Aug 10, 2016, 7:15:35 PM
As far as I understood the information they have given before the issue with "unique random" factions in Endless Legend is some conflict with how the world generation works. I have not looked into the world generator and don't know their randomization process for the factions, so I can't judge.
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9 years ago
Aug 9, 2016, 5:29:13 AM

I still do not understand difficulty of implementing this.


Have elements in the list, and remove one each time faction is chosen. Choose next faction from the list, etc...


For simplicity sake, do not restrict when choosing enemy factions manually from UI.


Only thing that would same take time would be UI that would toggle the option on or off.


Updated 9 years ago.
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9 years ago
Jul 20, 2016, 7:50:56 AM

Oft-requested feature, it's on our improvement list, but we're not sure we'll be able to implement it.

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9 years ago
Jul 18, 2016, 3:42:11 PM

I would definetly be a good change... On a map of 8 I have 2 Vaulters and Mezari. While I could tolarate Mezari... why 2 Vaulters. Next to each other, non the less!

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9 years ago
Jul 10, 2016, 11:26:59 AM

This is a must-have feature for all the Endless game and I hope if they add it for ES2 they will also update it in EL and ES1.

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9 years ago
May 23, 2016, 8:24:19 AM
I'd still like to have the option available to play with duplicate factions (meaning not to force every game have ONLY unique factions).

But yes, hoping that it's still somewhere on Amplitude's "list" ^^
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9 years ago
May 22, 2016, 11:27:05 AM
Should add a button that dictates that the random factions have to be unique. This however I imagine is a lot of work and not just going to be given to us free of charge. Hopefully they will consider making another expansion for the game and include that feature into the expansion.



I agree that it is annoying having doubles of any faction, considering how this games pinnacle point is the uniqueness of each faction and how cool each single factions are.
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9 years ago
May 7, 2016, 9:09:58 PM
I do want factions to be randomized, since not all factions can fit same game and I do not want to exclude specific ones.

Still, I do not want same factions appearing more then once, which can happen if factions are randomized. This essentially robs one extra unique faction of appearing in the game. I was very disappointed when I got two Forgotten factions in the same game.

.

Similarly, I would like to just exclude both Mezzari and Vaulters to appear in the same game.
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9 years ago
May 13, 2016, 2:51:23 PM
Maybe they simply didn't think about it. On the other hand since the requests for it began at the ES beta...



One way or another while at the topic of random factions, beside the lack of unique random option I'd also like to have ability to... hide chosen faction in the lobby! Yes - sometimes the sync drops down and you have reestabilsh it. And when you do - well all the random and unknown factions that you didnt yet encountered are not so random and unknown anymore :(
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9 years ago
May 8, 2016, 3:40:10 PM
player1 wrote:
It is very strange, if such change would require extensive code changes. In fact, as someone with developer experience, I really doubt that.



I could write such code change in one afternoon (or a day more if specific code is not well maintained).



Essentially, each randomly rolled faction needs to be removed from the pool of factions that are used when random rolling the faction, for each successive roll.



Of course, adding this as toggle option would require a bit more time, due to additional UI and configuration changes needed in that case.




I have the distinct feeling that map generation and faction assignment for EL is a bit more involved than this. Honestly, if it was this easy, it would be in the game already. More than likely it was something that they didn't account for when designing the whole map generation and random faction aspect of the game.



I mean consider, they hired additional programmers to help make the Ai better due to player requests. You think they would ignore something as seemingly simple as non-repeating random factions just to piss us off?
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9 years ago
May 8, 2016, 1:31:45 PM
It is very strange, if such change would require extensive code changes. In fact, as someone with developer experience, I really doubt that.



I could write such code change in one afternoon (or a day more if specific code is not well maintained).



Essentially, each randomly rolled faction needs to be removed from the pool of factions that are used when random rolling the faction, for each successive roll.



Of course, adding this as toggle option would require a bit more time, due to additional UI and configuration changes needed in that case.
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9 years ago
May 8, 2016, 12:59:30 PM
player1 wrote:
That's just... bad.



How in all playtesting for last 2 years no one raised important issue like this???



Please include it in future patch.




It has been requested at least once, but it seems that it requires some extensive code changes. Though I'd like to see this added in a future patch, I'm afraid that it'll be only included in EL2.
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9 years ago
May 8, 2016, 9:09:59 AM
player1 wrote:
That's just... bad.



How in all playtesting for last 2 years no one raised important issue like this???



Please include it in future patch.




If you check the forums, you will notice that we have brought it up, time and again, since the Early Access of Endless Space. Why it was never included is beyond my knowledge.

Non-repeating Random Number generators are more tricky to program than one might think at first, though, and if you throw in all the other variables of map generation, it might have just taken more time than they could spare.
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9 years ago
May 7, 2016, 9:33:15 PM
That's just... bad.



How in all playtesting for last 2 years no one raised important issue like this???



Please include it in future patch.
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9 years ago
May 7, 2016, 9:32:03 PM
Well then, I fully support the idea of a "unique random" option to be built in Endless Space 2.



But I never thought of your idea, Cat-o-Nine-Tales, it's a nice alternative that I will probably use. The only problem is that it ruins the suspense...
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