Actually, I have posted the in-development version of my mod on the forum and should hopefully manage to release to the Steam Workshop soon. I just want to fix a few issues with localization so the tooltips show up properly before I take it to the workshop. After that it'll probably be testing and bugfixing for a while, then trying to teach the AI to make better use of the changed gear, if that's possible at all.

Glad to hear you already figured it out. I'm sorry I haven't been around to lend some aid, but it seems like you didn't need much help, given how quickly you figured it out. Looking forward to trying it once I have the time.

Oh of course, I understand that you as a creator want to have fun in your own project, and you are perfectly entitled to be selfish in a mostly selfless endeavour that you are going to share with others. So no worries at all.



But yes, I could send you some ideas now and then, whenever I think of something.



Good luck!

Well, it's pretty fast and easy for me to come up with names and bios. But I don't want to be selfish because I know this sounds like a fun project.



Maybe, what you could do, if you wanted to contribute some energy and creativity to the project, is to come up with very brief and unpolished little themes for characters. Kind of like a list of ideas for heroes.



Some examples (Forgotten, because that's what I'm working on right now) might be: an adventurer that is disdainful of Forgotten politics, she wants nothing more than to map the world of Auriga and explore it's ruins; a shadowy merchant who rose to power in a small border town and quickly used his newfound power to exploit his rivals; a natural bully who oozes cruelty and confidence; etc.

It's an ambitious project. Good luck!



I might actually be able to help with writing bios, if you need the help. No guarantees of course, it will depend on the time I have available, but if I can help I definitely will!

Yup, that's the idea. I may even be able to make the final mod available as both a conversion (with some extra things included) and an extension (which would allow it to run alongside other mods of your choosing).



It's going to be a little while before this is completely done, though. I plan to start with a bunch of new Forgotten heroes (and play some games with them!) and gradually add new sets for each faction as I play through all the factions again.

That is awesome, well done!

I'm looking forward to the complete mod. Are you going to make it available on steam workshop?

I just wanted to say that I've figured out how to mod this, and I'm going to slowly be working on creating a few hundred new heroes. More info can be found here.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
Now, mind you, if I had enough additional hero names and descriptions, I could whip up a mod integrating them within a few hours. The 3d models of the heroes wouldn't be replaced and they'd have the same stats, but they would at least have different names and backstories. Writing that takes a lot of time, though.

I would be interested in creating hero names and backgrounds. This is something that I would really enjoy doing, but I feel a bit intimidated by the modding tutorials.



I think it would be best to start with one faction at a time, and create 10-15 heroes. I wouldn't create super intricate backstories, but I would give each of them a little bit of personality in a few sentences.



For example:







---



EDIT: I did a bunch of research and looked through the xml files and (mostly) figured this out myself. If anyone has any helpful information about modding in new heroes, I would be grateful if you would share it in this thread: [InfoRequest] Adding New Heroes

Xenophon wrote:
I still don't understand how you get the 500 number. That's 60-plus heroes per faction. Does anyone ever use 60-plus heroes, given that heroes are immortal? Even if some do use such a large number of heroes, I cannot imagine that's how Amplitude meant the game to be played. You mention balance issues, but such a hero-infested world would be truly unbalanced. It'd be the real-world equivalent of having more generals than non-officers.

I'm not calculating the number that would get bought and used, I'm calculating the number that would show up in the market as options. IIRC the game generates 3 exclusive heroes per player with 15-turn timers, and each exclusive slot gets filled the turn after it gets bought or expired. (And the non-exclusive heroes are a randomized subset of the exclusive heroes that didn't get bought.) So even if you never buy a single hero the entire game, the game is still generating 3 heroes per player every 15 turns. 300 turns / 15 turns * 3 heroes at a time * 8 players = 480 heroes. Since there is at least a chance that some of those exclusive heroes will actually get bought and need to be refilled early, I rounded up.



I don't think that's an exaggeration or hyperbole. I think that's the actual number. (And that's assuming we allow for something to break down when players play past the normal score victory cutoff.)



Could you whittle that number down if you made some changes to the rules? Sure. But now you're not talking about just adding heroes, you're talking about a rule change, which requires programmer time and will have gameplay effects that can't really be discussed until you specify what rules are being changed and how.

By the way, I'd definitely buy if there was a future heroes DLC that gave us even 2-3 heroes per faction. Heck, I am buying Dungeons of Endless Crystal pack just to get an extra Mezari hero.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
Actually, I have posted the in-development version of my mod on the forum and should hopefully manage to release to the Steam Workshop soon. I just want to fix a few issues with localization so the tooltips show up properly before I take it to the workshop. After that it'll probably be testing and bugfixing for a while, then trying to teach the AI to make better use of the changed gear, if that's possible at all.

Awesome - I will check it out when it is released.

I started a game as a Vaulter, and my start hero was Petrov. When I opened up the mercenary hero list, however, Petrov was also there. Is this intended? I cannot imagine this is intended, and it is frankly incredibly immersion-breaking.



Edit: Hmmm, I see that duplicates are not quite duplicates, as they have Roman numerals named after them. So I guess duplicates are intended. I am not sure if this is ideal though. Since there are 45 or so heroes, this may not have been necessary, as the current number would still allow 5-6 heroes per faction. And if hero shortage were still deemed an issue, there have been more unique heroes.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
When I started working on my big modding project, I quickly realized I could try to expand and integrate more lore, or work on gameplay aspects that bother me. I decided to work on the latter, but I'm more than willing to help with the former.

Is there a thread about your mod? Or is it still more in the mental gestation stage without tangible product (like most of my game modding ideas! )?

When I started working on my big modding project, I quickly realized I could try to expand and integrate more lore, or work on gameplay aspects that bother me. I decided to work on the latter, but I'm more than willing to help with the former.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:
500 may be an over-estimation, but you will need plenty of heroes. From what I understand, in multiplayer and on higher difficulty levels it is fairly normal to have governors in every city and generals on most armies. So even if we say every player needs 5 governors and three generals, that's 8 heroes per player, which already comes out at 64 heroes. But players will want to have some choice when hiring, so you need to triple or quadruple that number, coming out at 200 to 250 heroes. And that does not even take into account that with the Shadows expansion, you may need more heroes as spies.

200 or 250 would only be double or less than double of the current pool. And I am not persuaded that players shouldn't just take whatever that's available - which means maybe 2 or 3 more heroes per faction than that which currently exists is sufficient. Now, that cannot be that time-consuming for even a small(er) studio.



Beyond that, I am just puzzled by the decision to put them in the marketplace - and the associated decision to enable one to use non-faction heroes. It would have been smoother all-around to have them appear randomly - or have them trainable - within the faction.

The-Cat-o-Nine-Tales wrote:




Now, mind you, if I had enough additional hero names and descriptions, I could whip up a mod integrating them within a few hours. The 3d models of the heroes wouldn't be replaced and they'd have the same stats, but they would at least have different names and backstories. Writing that takes a lot of time, though.

Yeah, re-writing backgrounds would be too big of a project for any modder - unless they are masochists!

500 may be an over-estimation, but you will need plenty of heroes. From what I understand, in multiplayer and on higher difficulty levels it is fairly normal to have governors in every city and generals on most armies. So even if we say every player needs 5 governors and three generals, that's 8 heroes per player, which already comes out at 64 heroes. But players will want to have some choice when hiring, so you need to triple or quadruple that number, coming out at 200 to 250 heroes. And that does not even take into account that with the Shadows expansion, you may need more heroes as spies.

Of course, these numbers may be far higher than are needed in any single game, but a pool of heroes that is too small would be detrimental.



Now, mind you, if I had enough additional hero names and descriptions, I could whip up a mod integrating them within a few hours. The 3d models of the heroes wouldn't be replaced and they'd have the same stats, but they would at least have different names and backstories. Writing that takes a lot of time, though.

Antistone wrote:
If you're willing to change the underlying gameplay mechanics, then the required number of heroes could be anything you want, but then you have to consider the gameplay effects. I think that reducing the number of available options (even just in the lategame) would have a pretty significant impact on gameplay and balance. (That doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't be done, but it means the effects ought to be carefully considered, not casually dismissed.)



If you wanted to preserve exactly the same gameplay except forbid duplicates, then I believe you need around 500 heroes for an 8-player normal-speed game that ends in a score victory.

I still don't understand how you get the 500 number. That's 60-plus heroes per faction. Does anyone ever use 60-plus heroes, given that heroes are immortal? Even if some do use such a large number of heroes, I cannot imagine that's how Amplitude meant the game to be played. You mention balance issues, but such a hero-infested world would be truly unbalanced. It'd be the real-world equivalent of having more generals than non-officers.

Xenophon wrote:
I think 500 heroes is a bit of an exaggeration, given that there are only 8 max factions in a given game. Why not just have about 100 or so heroes (about the double the current number), and stop generating more at that stage? Even with 8 factions, that's be 12 or more on average per faction, and more than sufficient.



Immersion and role-play are big deal for some people even in 4x games, and this is just atrocious.

If you're willing to change the underlying gameplay mechanics, then the required number of heroes could be anything you want, but then you have to consider the gameplay effects. I think that reducing the number of available options (even just in the lategame) would have a pretty significant impact on gameplay and balance. (That doesn't necessarily mean it shouldn't be done, but it means the effects ought to be carefully considered, not casually dismissed.)



If you wanted to preserve exactly the same gameplay except forbid duplicates, then I believe you need around 500 heroes for an 8-player normal-speed game that ends in a score victory.



And even if you "only" double the current number of heroes, I'm not sure the developers would consider that a minor endeavor. (Though I don't know how long they spend on each hero...)

heroes pack containing 2 new heroes per faction would be great)