I have see a lot in here on various % modifiers to besieging armies, and possible damage to city buildings. To me the simplest way to have an effect that the novice to experience gamer can understand is to set up the game at the start, with an option for winter. Here you can make it...



Longer (Units already get winter damage - now this increases according to the options to the point of death);

More Damaging (Similar to above but in less time);

Shorten summers (Well planned resource management producing massive economies to support larger armies to win cities in shorter time scales);

Roaming winter monsters (I like this idea and think it would be an easy addition to the game code);

Use random lengths (so you're never sure when you'll need those stock piles or if your army will be successful)



Along with a simple calculation on the loss of units and population according to the game set up, winter becomes a serious consideration. This will give choice for those that want more savagery to their winters and force the player to choose how to mitigate for such losses in the simplest way.

Going to second or third that siege mechanic to winters, it's a good idea. If it was applied, very easy to add winter research which can counter that or in combination with the option of changing winters, we could set it to be less harsh.

I think this penalty is a little better than armies take damage over time when outside a city.

I also like the idea of marauding monsters.. We already have 'wildlings' in the game.. Can just have 2-3 types of winter wildings that come out and harass based on game time. They can be in higher concentrations in unowned regions, they could be very aggressive for armies outside of cities but ignore cities. -> penalty on invading during the winter.

I really like quantum's idea of different kinds of monsters roaming around during the winter season. In the spirit of the fantasy genre, it'd be cool to see something like a huge frost drake, possibly with the addition of being able to tame the beast and use its powers against rival factions. It would be hard to do of course, sort of like capturing Orion would be for those who know the game Master of Orion; perhaps you would have to search out its burrow and defeat it during the winter season, and the monster might be on par with a high-level hero equipped with some extravagent gear and some nice special abilities to boot.

The thing about applying the siege mechanic to winters is that is this meant instead of the -1 to food and for dust on each hex that winter currently does or in addition to it? Also if you treat winter's effect on economy as the same the siege effect, what about seiges during winter? The current system already has a flat economic penalty built in and this one also affects Broken Lords. I think there are problems with treating winters like a siege economically.

I agree it could be worse and worse, but only based on which era of technology you are in. If you remain in the 1st era for more than a winter, you should definitely feel the heat (get it? cuz winter... right, moving on) and try to get to a more advanced era in order to understand how to avoid the extreme effects of winter.

I agree winters seems more like an annoyance later on. You gets less Food and dust sure but due to how food production works with population it's not a big deal (with necrophages, the food /pop can become ridiculous. ) Food in general it's not a very limiting factor - but that's not the point.



Army attrition is definitively something that could be nice. Maybe not do it through all winter but have some random "blizzard" turns? They would halt armies and damage them for 1 turn. And stop units regeneration when outside cities. That would make Broken Lord even more powerful but they are lore wise, just armors.

Adventurer_Blitz wrote:
this is a much different planet than Earrh, they may not have anything akin to spring and autumn.

I would consider a transition from winter to Summer the spring, and the transition from Summer to Winter being autumn. These could be random in length just like the summer and winter seasons.

Effects could be something like

Spring - Flooding (rivers take extra movement points to cross or even uncrossable), Food generation is still lower than summer season

Autumn - All resource generation lowered half way betwen summer and winter as temperatures start to drop and cities prepare for winter

kochano wrote:
I would consider a transition from winter to Summer the spring, and the transition from Summer to Winter being autumn. These could be random in length just like the summer and winter seasons.

Effects could be something like

Spring - Flooding (rivers take extra movement points to cross or even uncrossable), Food generation is still lower than summer season

Autumn - All resource generation lowered half way betwen summer and winter as temperatures start to drop and cities prepare for winter

From the forum FAQ:

Spring and Fall seasons?

There are only two seasons on Auriga

Our goal is to make sure that there is a strong contrast between the two seasons, making those moments more dramatic and more impactful in terms of gameplay.

I tend to agree, let's focus on making Winter meaningful.



To that end, I can see a couple options that are straightforward and potentially devastating:

• Make the Food and Dust penalties a percentage (50%?) rather than a -1 on tiles, this would make them far more impactful and require action to combat (gathering stockpiles should be made a necessity for long winters imo).
• Remove the ability to assign workers to Food or Dust.
  
  

Reducing the effectiveness of assigning workers (ex. +2/worker rather than 4) would have a similar effect...

Seek wrote:
From the forum FAQ:







I tend to agree, let's focus on making Winter meaningful.



To that end, I can see a couple options that are straightforward and potentially devastating:

• Make the Food and Dust penalties a percentage (50%?) rather than a -1 on tiles, this would make them far more impactful and require action to combat (gathering stockpiles should be made a necessity for long winters imo).
• Remove the ability to assign workers to Food or Dust.
  
  

I know that we are just tossing ideas around and I am certainly in favor of altering the winter effects, however, I think the flat -1 does a better job of representing weather than a percentage would. The way it is now, you lose most of your outdoor income and it is only the additional city improvements which keep you going. A fledgling city gets hit very hard in the current system and I think that is how it should be.

i don't think switching around workers should be prohibited, one of the original ideas for winter was to force you to move people from industry, dust, and science, to food.

I agree with your point about worker reassignment.



Though I am not generally a fan of random catastrophes making a game harder, especially in multi-player, maybe something where various buildings had a chance of being damaged at the onset of winter and stopped producing unless you spent some dust or perhaps industry getting them back online.

or on the other hand, they could have industry penalties and increased upkeep cost during the winter.

Dalwin wrote:
Though this is essentially what happened to both Napoleon and Hitler at the gates of Moscow. That is on a planet where we have a pretty good idea when winter is going to hit. In EL it should be worse. It should force you to abandon some campaigns. I agree that there should also be some ways of mitigating the effects.

Yep. And if you notice, in either case, the Russians comparatively weren't affected nearly as much. Similarly the Marine's lore says that winter doesn't bother them, so it would be kinda nice if that lore had tangible effects in-game. Perhaps with the Vaulter units being immune or partially immune to the damage effect. Or simply having early access to winter clothing and transport gear. (Snowshoes would be cool imo)



And I agree the broken lords wouldn't be as affected, but I'd like to think that's how it should be. Unless of course winter hindered supply lines disable the ability to heal via ...

indigav wrote:
I have see a lot in here on various % modifiers to besieging armies, and possible damage to city buildings. To me the simplest way to have an effect that the novice to experience gamer can understand is to set up the game at the start, with an option for winter. Here you can make it...



Longer (Units already get winter damage - now this increases according to the options to the point of death);

More Damaging (Similar to above but in less time);

Shorten summers (Well planned resource management producing massive economies to support larger armies to win cities in shorter time scales);

Roaming winter monsters (I like this idea and think it would be an easy addition to the game code);

Use random lengths (so you're never sure when you'll need those stock piles or if your army will be successful)



Along with a simple calculation on the loss of units and population according to the game set up, winter becomes a serious consideration. This will give choice for those that want more savagery to their winters and force the player to choose how to mitigate for such losses in the simplest way.

I agree with this, Winters should be hard and unforgiving. I also feel that one of the best ways to survive winter should be stock piling food because to my knowledge the only real use for stockpiles at the moment is helping in the expanse of your empire, where as this would force the player to plan ahead by making sure they have an ample food supply.

Since the background of the game is about climate change it would be nice to consider some hard summer season as well. I am not fond of the idea of having the two effects in the same play, but it could be interesting to choose whereas "summer" or "winter" is doomed in the map selection (random also)...

Sure, if the cycle of summer-winter is constant, winters should have more teeth.

But considering that in the gamemode we have now, there's an endless winter, I believe winters shouldn't be more harsh.

Because if the cities enter siege mode during winter, and the winter is endless, the game would stagnate. While that would make it more realistic, i fear from a gameplay standpoint, it would become less fun.

I do agree that Winter needs to have more teeth to it, as it stands now it's merely a speedbump that has a minor affect on the FIDS of my cities and slows my armies down while their out on campaign.

Of course on the other hand how do you solve the problem of a more dangerous winter when in late game the Winter's become never-ending?



The answer is research. In the First Age there should be no technology to handle a coming winter. Winter is for all the factions a devastating circumstance that forces the players to do everything to try and survive till the Thaw.

However as you get higher up the tech tree you get a handful of technologies. Both Misc for all factions and maybe some unique one's to take advantage of each races respective abilities/flavor.



The Vaulters for example already have those winter shelters which is a great start. (And a wonderfully thought out bit of tech that fits with their background.)

But the introduction of specific winter technology to decrease the worst effects of winter on a general basis between the factions, combined with some unique technologies for the use of certain factions would go a long way towards alleviating the paradox of wanting a more dangerous winter while also not having the game stagnate once the endless winter finally kicks in.



Possible unique technologies for each respective faction would be something like....

Necrophage; Winter Hibernation

The warriors of the hive have developed the ability to enter into suspended animation during the winter time allowing them to survive outside of their warrens. Burying themselves beneath the snow they enter into a deep sleep and dream of summer when they can feed. During this time they cannot be moved. But they won't take damage from being exposed to the elements. Maybe add a bonus to their fighting the longer they've been in hibernation. (You can wake them up at any time. Though they don't heal while in hibernation.



Winter Evolution: The Necrophages realizing the coming winters are getting longer and harsher have focused on a breeding program that will make the warriors of the hive better able to survive out in the endless winter. Slowing their decline in health to a crawl or even halting it, though increasing their upkeep to better reflect their new more ravenous appetite to keep them healthy.



Obviously a higher technology then the previous one.



The Vaulters:

Extreme Weather Gear: The Vaulters in response to the worsening winters have created gear and equipment to better help them survive the harsher winters. Though this gear allows them to survive without losing health it slows down the Armies during the winter time do to the heavier loads.



The Halls of Steel: Despite the Vaulters moving towards the surface the underground of Auriga is still littered with tunnels. The Vaulters realizing that the underground, while still fraught with peril still can serve a purpose. The tunnels below a city are mapped and marked allowing for quick and efficient travel between the city and it's outskirts.

This would negate the Siege effects of winter.



Wild Walkers:

The Partial Sharing: The Wildshapers teach their warriors how to partially shape their bodies to survive the elements. Animals have long since evolved methods of dealing with winter and snow. Why can't they learn the old ways again to better survive?

Would allow better movement speeds and halt health leeching. On the other hand it could give then a penalty to fighting since their more wild at this time.



Winter Sharing: One step beyond the partial sharing. The Warriors of the Wild Walkers once again take the form of animals to better survive in the winter.

Would give them probably a massive boost to movement speeds at the cost of being unable to initiate attacks.





Anyway. Those were just some ideas of the top of my head. >.>

Bottom line. Giving the winter phase of the game more teeth can work very well. Moreso in the early to midgame. By the time the late game occurs all of the players should have researched most of the winter tech and allow them to better survive and thrive during this period.

WireWolf wrote:
I do agree that Winter needs to have more teeth to it, as it stands now it's merely a speedbump that has a minor affect on the FIDS of my cities and slows my armies down while their out on campaign.

Of course on the other hand how do you solve the problem of a more dangerous winter when in late game the Winter's become never-ending?



The answer is research. In the First Age there should be no technology to handle a coming winter. Winter is for all the factions a devastating circumstance that forces the players to do everything to try and survive till the Thaw.

However as you get higher up the tech tree you get a handful of technologies. Both Misc for all factions and maybe some unique one's to take advantage of each races respective abilities/flavor.



The Vaulters for example already have those winter shelters which is a great start. (And a wonderfully thought out bit of tech that fits with their background.)

But the introduction of specific winter technology to decrease the worst effects of winter on a general basis between the factions, combined with some unique technologies for the use of certain factions would go a long way towards alleviating the paradox of wanting a more dangerous winter while also not having the game stagnate once the endless winter finally kicks in.



Possible unique technologies for each respective faction would be something like....

Necrophage; Winter Hibernation

The warriors of the hive have developed the ability to enter into suspended animation during the winter time allowing them to survive outside of their warrens. Burying themselves beneath the snow they enter into a deep sleep and dream of summer when they can feed. During this time they cannot be moved. But they won't take damage from being exposed to the elements. Maybe add a bonus to their fighting the longer they've been in hibernation. (You can wake them up at any time. Though they don't heal while in hibernation.



Winter Evolution: The Necrophages realizing the coming winters are getting longer and harsher have focused on a breeding program that will make the warriors of the hive better able to survive out in the endless winter. Slowing their decline in health to a crawl or even halting it, though increasing their upkeep to better reflect their new more ravenous appetite to keep them healthy.



Obviously a higher technology then the previous one.



The Vaulters:

Extreme Weather Gear: The Vaulters in response to the worsening winters have created gear and equipment to better help them survive the harsher winters. Though this gear allows them to survive without losing health it slows down the Armies during the winter time do to the heavier loads.



The Halls of Steel: Despite the Vaulters moving towards the surface the underground of Auriga is still littered with tunnels. The Vaulters realizing that the underground, while still fraught with peril still can serve a purpose. The tunnels below a city are mapped and marked allowing for quick and efficient travel between the city and it's outskirts.

This would negate the Siege effects of winter.



Wild Walkers:

The Partial Sharing: The Wildshapers teach their warriors how to partially shape their bodies to survive the elements. Animals have long since evolved methods of dealing with winter and snow. Why can't they learn the old ways again to better survive?

Would allow better movement speeds and halt health leeching. On the other hand it could give then a penalty to fighting since their more wild at this time.



Winter Sharing: One step beyond the partial sharing. The Warriors of the Wild Walkers once again take the form of animals to better survive in the winter.

Would give them probably a massive boost to movement speeds at the cost of being unable to initiate attacks.





Anyway. Those were just some ideas of the top of my head. >.>

Bottom line. Giving the winter phase of the game more teeth can work very well. Moreso in the early to midgame. By the time the late game occurs all of the players should have researched most of the winter tech and allow them to better survive and thrive during this period.

I really like this idea(and props for making all the techs fit so well with the various factions) but just one thing about the Partial Sharing idea: perhaps instead of gaining a penatly for being more animal like perhaps they should get a back-handed buff, they're more aggresive meaning the deal more damage but they have a chance of attacking each other. I don't know, just a thought.





As a side note, perhaps minor factions could play a role in this? What if you station an army on a pacified village they're partially protected from the health leeching and maybe certain minor factions(like the Ettin - those are the two headed dog things yea?) could give a bonus to the Empire.

Like I said. Those ideas were very off the cuff. I have no idea how well they'd balance out. But the general idea remains the same. Give winter some more teeth. Being unprepared for Winter will at best screw you six ways to sunday. At worst you might be dealing with starvation and cities dying if your not careful.

However, Each research age after the first age slowly introduces more and more technology to counteract the worst effects. Some generalized for all factions and others unique to the factions that helps alleviate the worst of the winter affects until finally once the Neverending Winter blows it's way through your better prepared for it.